Podcast Episode 110: Web Search vs. Research

Paul: When we do web search, we’ve got confirmation bias working against us. We also have what we’re hearing, by definition in the web search, is the most popular things. So if somebody’s showing us something new and innovative, or something that’s not for the common person, then the web search is gonna fail us.

Speaker 2: Welcome to Sound Financial Bites, where we help you with bite sized pieces of financial and life knowledge to help you design and build a good life. The knowledge that has been shared from stages at conferences, pages of national business magazines, and clients living across America, our host, Paul Adams, now brings directly to you.

Paul: Hello, and welcome to Sound Financial Bites. I am Paul Adams, and I’m excited that you’re here. We are so appreciative of our listeners. We appreciate all of you.

Something I did not mention in our last episode, but I just want as a reminder to all of you. Take a moment, give us a review on iTunes. It makes a big big difference for the podcast, and if you just take a screenshot of that from your phone, or your computer, e-mail it to us at [email protected], give us your mailing address and we will send you, while supplies last, a copy of Michael Michalowicz’s book, Profit First, or if you’d prefer, you could have a copy of Cape Not required by Cory Shepherd, who’s also our guest today. Put in your email which of those episodes you’d like. Cory, welcome, as always, back to Sound Financial Bites.

Cory: Thank you, and or you could have both books, I’ll happily give away one of mine as well. I’m wondering how many times I get to be on before I’m not a guest anymore. We gotta figure that one out, but –

Paul: As soon as I make you host and I don’t have to be on anymore.

Cory: No, well – I am grateful –

Paul: I guess you’re right, we’re gonna look into upgrading you to co-host soon.

Cory: Soon, soon, that’s great. Well, I’m happy to be here and we’ll keep the gratitude train going and just say, as I was listening to your intro, 110 episodes were – been around a lot longer than most podcasts now, and I’m just thankful for what is Paul’s tenacious and unrelenting energy in keeping that going, otherwise we would not be here right now. So, I’m happy to be a guest for at least one more episode because you are uber host.

Paul: Well, thanks for that Cory, and today’s topic is gonna be so critical because I think it’s an area of life that we all run into some problems with, and it’s the idea of the way that we collapse doing research versus doing web

search. We’re gonna talk about that, how it affects our finances, how it affects other decisions, and yet what I also want to do is talk a little bit about our upcoming episode.

This is going to be maybe one of the most jarring episodes, so for those of you that are just kind of consuming our stuff, and you’re just going to tune in next week like it’s going to be a regular episode, I really want you to consider whether or not you should listen to the episode or not.

We have a gentleman that was a client of mine for about the last

16 years. He did some planning with us, very early on in my career, when I lived in another city. We’re gonna have to keep the client – we’re not gonna fully disclose all of the details of the situation so as to protect him, but this is a client of ours that acquired appropriately, as part of a full scale plan, and the work that he did with our team, he acquired some disability insurance. He was an executive inside of the jewelry industry, and one of the top leaders of one of the highest grossing jewelry stores in the country. And there was, there’s going to be a recounting of how he became disabled, and you’re gonna hear the actual story from the gentleman who went through it, of the kinds of things that are wildly unpredictable that you would never imagine could put you in a position that you would actually be disabled.

What happened to him is that there was a kidnapping. He was kidnapped. He was not only a concealed weapons carrier, but also trained, and in that line of work there’s risks of getting kidnapped so that somebody can rob the store that you lead, and you’re gonna hear bit by bit what he went through, what he’s gone through since, and his advocacy for something as simple as disability insurance. You see this client of ours actually had to kill both kidnappers to save him and another gentleman’s life, and you’re going to hear it. It will be incredibly jarring. It’s not gonna be one you want to listen to on double speed. If you’re jogging while you listen to our next episode, you’re probably gonna have to slow down and walk and maybe shed some tears.

This guy has been a dear dear friend of mine. I’ve had chance to be in conversation with him. He’s gone through this, and he’s actually ready to share this story, and know that for those of you that choose to listen to what’s going to be the hardest podcast you may have ever listened to, the reason that he’s sharing this is for you. Because he feels like he’s gotten some lessons and awareness that he never would have gotten, and a deep level of appreciation for planning he never would have gotten, had it not been for getting connected with an advisor coach. In this case it was me, but it’s the importance, and somewhere we’re gonna go today in this episode is the important of having an advisor coach, so really encourage you to tune in to episode 111.

Cory: And I’ll say that I’ve heard snippets of this story from you, Paul, never directly from this gentleman, and I am, it’s like with a heavy heart I am looking forward to hearing the story, because it’s important.

Paul: Yeah, well even for me just being in the interview with him. We’re actually recording this one, it’s the next podcast that we’re recording, and I’m telling you, even in getting prepared for it, it has me in a deep amount of reflection about family, future, what’s really important in life and the importance of the work that we do, but also for those of you that are clients of ours, or for those of you that are listeners, the importance of the work that you do in just increasing your knowledge.

Making sure you understand these things, and facing some difficult things, and being able to do the hard thing now so that things are easier later. Whereas the rest of society wants you to do the easy thing now, and the hard thing, we’ll just defer and hopefully it’ll work out.

So, with that, let’s get to today’s episode that’s not nearly as deep or serious, but with very serious outcomes, so it’s creating more distinction between something that we do. So, if you are a professional in any discourse, if you’re ever worked with somebody who’s trying to make a decision and it’s a difficult decision in an area they’re not familiar with, you will hear all the time, well I need to do some research first. And what that usually means is not research and we’re gonna talk about these distinctions. What they mean is they’re gonna do a web search and they’re probably gonna go as deep as the second page of Google.

Now, why is this important? It’s because what we want, we want our clients to be in an inquiry with us about any strategy they may implement. It’s a big deal to us. And that means that they may be in the inquiry and have thoughts or feedback that we didn’t think of from sources that we didn’t know to consult.

Cory: Hey, sorry, if you missed our last episode on the fiduciary standard, this is part of what we’re talking about, is you need to get it. You need to understand it to make sure that we’re not missing anything. ‘Cause you know more about your life than we do.

Paul: Yes, and there’s a lot of research going on now, and some books that have been written on it about where is our brain? And our brain, tive capacity exists in the communities with which we engage, communicate, and share. So, when we’re sitting down working on somebody’s finances, it’s not my gray matter between my ears that’s working for the client, or Cory’s, it’s the collective cognition of the group and how we’re all thinking about it. Not group think in a bad way, but group, we’re bouncing ideas off one another, discovering new things and creating new efficiencies. What stops that is if we

go out to do research, that’s actually web search, and then we don’t ground it like we need to go back and make a case. So we’re gonna talk about that here in just a moment.

So let’s first though, let’s look at the definition of research. Those folks that are watching on youtube are gonna be able to see this, so let’s look at the definition of research. We can see here that it’s careful or diligent search. Okay, so let’s stop right there, ’cause there’s something that impacts all of us. Cory, you talked about it a little bit, before we started recording, about confirmation bias.

Cory: Yeah. Well one of the – so I once in a moment of weakness, I don’t even remember the headline, but in my Apple newsfeed, I clicked on a People Magazine article. I was like ah, it’s People Magazine and now I feel bad, but then, I kept getting prompts for other People Magazine articles in my Apple newsfeed. So the thing we have to remember is that all of these websites are trained in their algorithms to give us more of what they think we want to see so that we click more.

Paul: Which is compounding and then that compounds our cognitive bias, because we all have the same confirmation bias. That’s not unique to the internet. We showed up with it, it’s just that all of these tools … I heard an interview with Elon Musk the other day, that what causes us to engage further in technology is whether or not it has limbic resonance. Does it already agree or move in the direction that our existing cognitive biology does? Sorry, that was a little nerdy. I realized it after I said it.

Cory: I love that word though, limbic resonance. Ooh.

Paul: Limbic resonance, yeah, that was my word of the day. Two words, that covers me for two days.

Hey everyone, I want to let you know I’m interrupting this podcast for a good reason. If you’re someone who’s enjoying this podcast. If our philosophy is helping you better think about money, then this offer is for us.

We’ve opened up a financial inquiry call for our listeners of Sound Financial Bites. Our financial inquiry call is 15 minutes where one of our team will ask you some key questions, understand your concerns, and if appropriate, schedule you for a philosophy conversation with myself or Sound Financial Group’s President, Cory Shepherd.

If you e-mail us as [email protected] with “inquiry” in the subject, we will reply back to you with a link to our team calendar so you can schedule a call at a time that’s least invasive for you.

Even if we’re not a fit, the team member having the call with you can point you in the direction of resources we have that can help you in whatever the next step for you in your financial journey is.

Now back to your podcast already in progress.

So that confirmation bias is known as confirmation bias, or also called confirmatory bias, or my side bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor and recall information in a way that conforms to one preexisting beliefs or hypothesis. Now, if you watch at all, our current public discourse around politics, you see cognitive bias everywhere and that is certainly the case as it relates to confirmation bias compounded by whatever searching you’ve done before, ads you’ve clicked on when you search. You’re getting all of that present in that feed that you search for.

So when we do research, what we want, number one, the first definition is careful or diligent search. Which I think most of the times when we say we’re gonna research something, what we mean is we’re gonna go look out on the internet and see what we see. That’s the web search. [crosstalk 00:12:32]

Cory: See what we see quickly.

Paul: Quickly, yeah. First page. Maybe deep research would be the second page of Google. Deep web search, but you’re right, and then next is studious inquiry or examination, especially investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts. Revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new revised theories or laws.

And then third is the collecting of information about a particular subject. So, by the way, right there, this is not the decision-making mechanism. This is the information gathering mechanism. Big difference. That’s where I think most people get most hung up, is they feel like, well I’m doing. I think this is what we actually all go through without thinking about it. This is not meant to offend anybody, because I’ve seen me do it. So this is not any admonition of anything you all would do. And I don’t just mean on your finances. It could be something as simple as somebody recommends a new way to do your driveway, like a new way to handle the concrete, that you’ve never heard of before and it makes you uncomfortable. What you should be doing is actual research not just web search, so let’s talk about what would be the difference between the two, and why research is not the decision-making mechanism. We’ll get to that in a minute.

So when we do web search we’ve got confirmation bias working against us. We also have what we’re hearing, by definition in the web search, is the most popular things. So if somebody’s showing us something new and innovative, or something that’s not for the common person, then the web

search is gonna fail us, because it’s tailored to – Well, Cory just about maybe average incomes, what top one percent looks like, all hat so our audience gets some centering on if you’re listening and you’re between 300,000 and a million five of income, which is where not all, but most of our clients live, if you’re a listener that’s kind of above that range, you’re not like everybody else who might be reading the internet where they’re trying to attract eyeballs.

Cory: When most of our clients are in that upper range of income, and the median income in the country year to year hovers somewhere in that $40,000 range for a household, like in a website that’s got financial articles is probably writing those articles and publishing ones that they think the most people would click on, ’cause they’re getting paid per click or for advertising. So, depending on your situation, it may be nearly impossible to find an article that actually applies specifically to you. It’s at least worth a good question, is this article written for someone in my position, or someone at a different time of life, different income level, et cetera?

Paul: Well, and I’ve got to tell a personal story. This is pre the ubiquity of Google. Was I to increase my knowledge at 18 years of age, when I had my first internship in this industry, would go out to the lobby. I couldn’t afford The Wall Street Journal, but it was sent to the office every day. So I would come early before anybody else got there and arrive in the office at 6:30. Beautiful office in the Howard Hughes Center in Las Vegas, and I felt so special coming in to the marble floors, park in a parking garage. I had a pass I had to wave and then that’s what let my car – it was super. I just felt so important, but I would sit down, not able to afford The Wall street journal, and come into this very important office early and read, and what occurred to me after reading The Wall Street journal for months and months and months in the money section, was even The Wall Street Journal is not tailored to the top level incomes.

I got some updated research right before doing this, Cory, I forgot to mention to you, that the national income now is about 55,000 per household, but the top one percent is nearly 400. The top five percent I think is like 280 and up. And the top 10 percent is like 180ish, and those are pretty close. And the thing is, I’m reading The Wall Street Journal and in the advice articles it’s talking about contributing to a Roth IRA. Now even back then, you could not put money in a Roth IRA, I think the limit was 120,000 a year of income you could be making to be able to put the money – it’s like wait a second, even The Wall Street Journal, the one you would think is targeting the highest income people is offering advice to use a tool, that if you make over 120,000 I think it was at that time, you couldn’t contribute, and that was when my eyes were opened to the fact that the media’s job is to get the most eyeballs for the most amount of advertisers in the chosen demographic where they’re gonna be able to charge the most. That’s it. So in our case, when we go

out and do web search, it’s that problem still exists today on internet media, that it did in print media.

They need the eyeballs, they need the advice to apply to the most possible people, and that means the advice probably doesn’t apply to you, but the information might be valuable. Research, research is the studious gathering of information was one of those definitions.

Cory: I was just gonna observe the old adage of free advice is seldom cheap. So you think about what The Wall Street Journal costs, the people at the high end of Wall Street itself pay much more than a Wall Street Journal subscription to get access to their Bloomberg Journal, so when you think about the price of the advice, if it’s free or very very low cost, it has to be designed for a mass audience ’cause there’s not enough people in the one percent or 10 percent income level to really make as much profit as they need to.

Paul: And for that matter, you, as you browse things on the internet or you browse things in a magazine, or you browse financial entertainers that have radio shows, whatever, you are not the customer to that entertainer, that writer. Who is paying them? You’re not. Who’s paying them is the advertiser, the banner ad, the whatever. Here’s the thing, the information still may be valuable. It’s strategic implementation your life may not be.

So let’s take an example that an advisor comes to you and says, “Hey, I think despite you making more money, I think you should do a Back Door Roth IRA.” Now you go, “I’ve never heard of this before. Is this really true?”, and let’s say you have that little moment of doubt. Now by the way, any advisor, or what I would say, they need to be an advisor or financial coach, like we are to our clients, but any advisor you might engage, if when you give critical feedback, if you get defensiveness, opinions, or platitudes in return, be cautious, right?

Like if you quote something from Suze Orman or Dave Ramsey and their answer is some version of a condescending they’re an idiot, I promise you, you can Google their net worth, they are not idiots. They are doing something right. Now, you’re not their customer and they’re brilliant at taking care of their customers. In fact, your viewership of podcasts, newspapers, that’s what they sell their advertisers. That’s why we don’t have an outside advertiser on this podcast. ‘Cause I don’t want to have to worry about something we say on this podcast upsetting an advertiser. I just want to do the best that Corey and I can with our guests to scratch at the surface of what everybody accepts as true and give you a different insight.

And now you go out, you do the web search, and you should be gathering information. If that advisor said Back Door Roth IRA, and you said well I don’t know if that works, and let’s say you found something and you go well I don’t think it works because I have other IRAs, and it’s gonna trigger

something called the pro rata rule, and I don’t know what in the heck that is, all you have to do is capture those things. That there’s some kind of problem called the pro rate rule, and do we have a strategy to navigate around that? I might even ask my CPA if I should do it, and then if I’m gonna gather that opinion.

Information valuable opinion for strategic purposes from somebody who hasn’t seen all of the financial information your advisor should be seeing before he makes a recommendation. That opinion may be valuable, but you may need to ask why. “I don’t think you should do Roth.” Why? Just ask why two or three times and then take those answers back to your advisor coach and now work through them, because your advisor, like we talked about in our last episode, should be centered on … You should be centered on as being your own fiduciary, indisputable math and independent scholarship. Indisputable math, independent scholarship should be the standard, so you gather all the information and then you can go back with questions about does it work given these other things that I’ve discovered?

If what you do, is let’s say you gather that information, let’s talk about avoiding the cognitive bias. Let’s say the advisor you’re working with says you should own whole life insurance, make some recommendation around that, and you feel like you’ve got some gap in knowledge or you’re not sure. So you go out and you do a web search, what you may want to do is you might search whole life, see what comes up. What you’ll probably find, first page of Google, is a bunch of companies trying to select whole life if that’s all you search.

If you do whole life versus term, you will find other articles that are sometimes making comparison of whole life versus term. Now I can tell you, from personal experience, that there are times that those same articles that came up in whole life versus term search are actually comparing universal life, or variable universal life, or equity indexed universal life, or as my mythical product I like to talk about, reverse nuclear, split dollar, equity indexed flexible universal life, ’cause these marketing departments come up with crazy things to call them.

Cory: Crazy, yeah.

Paul: And then they’re comparing that to the term, so by gathering that

information, you can bring it back to your advisor and say “Hey, what about this?” and it’s very easy for the advisor to go “Actually that’s not, they’re using this more general term called permanent insurance, that’s not what we’re talking about.”, and then they can produce additional clarity, and you might choose to go do more web search as research. Meaning we’re gonna gather all of the facts, we’re gonna be copying and pasting domain names into a document for our next meeting with our advisor. We’re going to make sure we

have some amount of understanding, and then we’re gonna search the opposite to try to avoid the cognitive bias.

So we might say, whole life insurance bad, and then we might search whole life insurance good. So we get a little bit of both sides. Now, here’s the problem with this. This is work, doing – You know, if you’ve told your advisor you’re gonna do some research, or your CPA or whoever, your attorney, when they’ve made a recommendation it’s pretty darn easy to just like on the drive over while you’re stuck at a long stoplight, I don’t recommend this, to google whole life insurance and get a, I don’t know, white coat investor says it’s no good, or whatever. Then that is where you go like, ugh, I looked online, looks like some stuff’s bad I just don’t want to do it. That is not how you should make decisions for your own sake. If you’re gonna be your own fiduciary, you should be able to go back to that advisor and make the case for why not to do it, because whether you make a decision to do something with your money, or you make a decision and not do something with your money, either way you made a decision.

Was it well informed, well researched, and then last, but not least, remember the research is not the decision. I alluded to this earlier, the research is not the decision. So if the research is not the decision, what is? The analysis is.

Let’s just look at the definition of analysis here. Analysis, thank you Merriam Webster, is a detailed examination of anything complex in order to understand its nature or determine its essential features. A thorough study.

Two, a separation of a whole into its equal parts. Definition three, is the identification of separation of ingredients of a substance. Not so applicable here, but when we get to mathematics, the fourth definition, it really comes home. Proof of a mathematical proposition by assuming the results and deducting a valid statement in a series of reversible steps. That is how you make a decision.

Cory, if I may, not to put you on the spot, but could you walk through, let’s say a client finds an article and they say, “We’ve done all this work and everything else, I want to implement this this this, but I don’t want disability insurance.” They said I did research, but they may have just done web search. And it looks like life insurance companies make a lot of money on disability insurance. Now we pause right there, or an umbrella policy, fill in the blank. Usually our experience is clients just say they did the research and they found this, but they don’t bring us the citing.

So if somebody went as far to bring you the citing for something like that, how would you start to unpack it in a way that meets this definition of proof of a mathematical proposition, by assuming the result and deducting a valid statement by a series of reversible steps?

Cory: So, first we want to ask them, like what is your ideal outcome? What is your end goal in mind? If their end goal is to make sure that insurance companies make as little money as possible, then perhaps not getting disability insurance is the thing to do, but it probably isn’t their main goal in life to minimize revenue in insurance companies.

Their main goal in life is probably to have a long happy, successful, career, make the money they need so their family can do the things they want to do and have a good life. So then we’d say, okay, if that’s our end goal, what are the things that might get in the way of that? Well, one is not being able to do the job to which they’ve received training, or grown in the career that’s earning them income that they’re earning. So we say okay, what are the alternatives? What are the costs, and we’ll do an analysis that’s comparing, usually it’s one of two alternatives. It’s having a thing like disability insurance and not needing it, versus needing something lie disability insurance and not having it.

Which one is the – What are the relative costs of the two and we’re usually looking for the one that is net less expensive. Is it worth the cost of paying for that disability insurance if you think you’re never gonna need it, and you notice that I’m not actually looking at specific research around how likely they are to get disabled or not, because this is one of the fallacies of research. We’ve talked about this in a past podcasts. For individuals risk is different than institutions. An insurance company needs to know how likely it is for a person to get disabled, like one in three, one in four, are some of the numbers that they’ll come up with, ’cause they just need to get it right over that pool of people and then their math works out and they can make a profit. But for that individual, that kind of research isn’t actually helpful because for us it’s a zero percent chance of becoming disabled until it becomes a hundred percent chance because we just did.

And our likelihood of becoming disabled is not constant. It changes over time. Me in this instant, it’s nearly as close to zero as we can get. The second I walk out on the street more dangers are coming at me, something could happen. So our risk of something like that is changing. So we really want to bring it back to, okay where do we want to go with this, and then step back to what are our choices here in this moment and compare those costs.

In my white paper, Money, Where Humanity and Hard Numbers Meet, we do an analysis of what the cost is of going it alone and trying to achieve the impact of disability insurance on our own, and money we’d have to set aside for that versus the cost of having a company take on that risk for us. And yes, we may be paying them some money and they may be making a profit on that, but it often ends up less costly to us to go down that route, although not always, but that’s a comparison we have to do.

Paul: That, I think does such a great job of encapsulating what it is you do when you’re thinking about something strategically doing the analysis. So you gotta do … you will have to type something into a search engine to begin to gather information, part one, but when we’re doing research, web search and research are not synonymous. So now if we’re gonna use, do research, that means we need to read, we need to avoid our cognitive bias, by maybe searching both ends of the equation, grabbing the relevant facts that might disagree with whoever’s making the recommendation. Whether it’s the new concrete in the driveway, or a particular tax strategy to implement, or working with an advisor. And then capture those things, bring them back to the table with the advisor to have a discussion about how it works and then be really cautious if any advisor just gives you platitudes, like “What you can’t trust what you read on the internet.” or “That person’s just an idiot”, or just help me understand if that conversation becomes condescending that may be that advisors defense mechanism, and it may make sense to not engage because that means that person’s confirmation bias isn’t gonna let them read the articles you read anyway.

I remember we were working with a large client who has about eight figures of net worth, and brought us in and paid us our consulting and design fees to actually do some work that maybe wasn’t being done by this, it’s one of those big names in private wealth management groups that you would know the name of. And when we did, I remember having to talk to the client after several meetings with this other team that were somewhat combative.

Paul: And I had to say to the – this has to do with their confirmation biases. I said to the client, I said, if our recommendation is totally totally correct and that advisor agrees at the end of this next meeting, even if they know it’s true, do you think they could actually say that our recommendation is better than what they’ve been doing for you based upon every other type of communication they’ve had with you or us about this situation? And the client kind of went “Well, no, but you know I’ve been with them and in this case well over a decade, and I want to keep them.” And I said, “Of course, but let’s just talk about what is the equivalent given their cognitive bias of a raving review?” and we came down to the best they could do is I guess you’re right. And in that next meeting, they got to well I guess you’re right, that was it. No glowing endorsement et cetera.

You might need to work with your advisor to get them to I guess you’re right. Now we work with clients all over the country. Feel free to reach out to us. We work with advisors and clients across the country. We’re happy to help you, we do it by Zoom, but know when you do your web search, do it for the sake of gaining research.

Be cautious of your cognitive biases and last, but not least, do the analysis with that advisor or coach to suss out the math and the scholarship to make sure you understand and feel comfortable with the decision. Doesn’t mean you’re going to be able to take a quiz in six months and answer it correctly, but in that moment you should feel you have understanding and have an advisor that doesn’t mind reinvigorating or re-explaining it to you, and this type of advisor is rare. So know you may have to do some searching or you may have to work with somebody that’s not even in your city.

So that having been said, reminder for our giveaways today, and your downloads. We’ve got that incredible white paper from Cory. We’d love to have you download it. You can get it at research.sfgwa.com, research.sfgwa.com, and you’re gonna be able to get Cory’s white paper. The other thing that really helps the podcast, we’d love to have you guys do is go online to iTunes, give us a review. Say what you got out of the episode. It doesn’t need to be a great review, just an honest one. Give us that honest review, take a screenshot from your phone or your computer, e-mail it to us at [email protected] and let us know your choice of either Michael Michalowicz’s book Clockwork, who is on our podcast just this month or Cory Shepherd’s Cape Not Required. Clockwork is a key book for business owners, entrepreneurs, but if you’re a top one percent executive and you want the kinds of fundamental things that Cory learned that put him in a position to be Vice President of my organization at an incredibly young age, and be up there and earning top five percent household income as an individual, this is the book you want to read.

Incredible, if you ever have a chance to talk to Cory one on one and you’ll see it come across in the pages of his books, you will notice Cory Shepherd is a man far wise beyond his years.

Cory: Oh gosh.

Paul: There’s a reason why he’s President of our organization and why I’m thankful to have him on the podcast. So once again, Cory, thank you so much for being in this conversation today.

Cory: Well thank you, Paul. This has been a lot of fun.

Paul: I hope that this episode, like every one of our episodes is the chance for all of you that we’ve been given to contribute to you being able to design and build a good life. We’re gonna see you next week on our incredibly heavy episode and we hope you join us.

Speaker 2: I want to acknowledge you for taking the time to tune in to Sound Financial Bites. You stopped long enough in your busy day to reflect on your finances and your future, to help you design and build a good life.

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