Podcast Episode 14: Your Body is the Most Important Asset in Designing and Building a Good Life (Part 1)

Hello, this is Corey Shepherd, vice president of Sound Financial group and I’m excited to welcome you to Sound Financial Bites, where we bring you bite-sized pieces of financial knowledge to help you design and build a good life.

I’m glad you could join us on today’s episode. Today we’re welcoming a friend of mine named Krisstina Wise. Krisstina’s done a great job at building a primary company. That is a real estate firm down in the Austin, Texas area and has subsequently built a coaching platform and philosophy where people go to events or pay her to coach them to teach them how to learn more about building what she calls a Wealthy Wellthy life. I think what you’re all going to take away is how you can use some of her techniques and philosophies to help you design and build a good life. This is part 1 of 2, so I look forward to you all being able to hear this over a couple of episodes. Krisstina and I are really got into it, so it took us two episodes to get the entire interview done. I hope you enjoy it.

Well, welcome everybody to another episode of Sound Financial Bites. It’s great to have you join us today. My name is Paul Adams. I’m president and CEO of Sound Financial Group and, today, we’ve got an incredible treat for you with a guest that I get the opportunity to be able to interview, have some conversations with and, I think, a woman that’s going to give many of you a set of resources, and maybe even a change in paradigm and way of thinking that you may not have expected when tuning in today’s podcast. Before we get launched and I introduce you to Krisstina Wise, let me share with you, if you’re new to the podcast how you can engage with us, what you can do. You can like us on Facebook, connect with me personally on LinkedIn, send us a message, a question on a topic. You may well hear it in one of our future podcasts. You can go to our website. You can download the first 3 chapters of my book and by the time we’re done with the podcast today, you could literally have it downloaded on your Kindle. So, we’re glad to have you with us today. We’ve got some upcoming web events coming so you want to watch that on our website, as well as some of our in person client events, where we work to build a community of people who are spending time learning about money, so they could be more effective with it. Let me tell you a little about our guest today. So, Krisstina Wise and I got to know each other about a decade ago as we participated together in a set of educational learning about being better in business. Krisstina built a successful real estate company, real estate brokerage down in Austin, Texas, where she has not just built a group of people that come in to do real estate together, but a group of high performers, that are not only helping people get into homes and be effective on that front but they’re taking good care of themselves in their lives because of Krisstina’s leadership. She has other businesses, where she has operational partners that run those businesses, as well as what you’re going to notice – is you’re going to notice that she has her own podcast, where she is reaching out to an audience, where she promotes and talks about her principles she covers in her conferences, in her Wealthy Wellthy brand and, Krisstina, I’m so glad you could join us today and I’m glad that you could speak into our audience. Let me start by asking you a question. What do you think, when it comes to people wanting to build wealth, what is the most important asset that they have to care for?

Well you set me up perfectly for that one. As you know, part of what I teach – I teach money – I love the money conversation, it’s a part of what I want to tackle is this psychology around money and that we can get over a lot of hang-ups about it. We can just start talking about it. So I love talking about money, and just, in general, business, personal, however we want to – investing incomes, whatever. But in all these money talk that I love talking about, what I really like to emphasize is something that I don’t hear talked about in many conversations ever and, to me, it’s the most important part of earning money, having money, growing money, is this thing. We have one where it’s called an asset, and we know what that is, that it’s the idea of our body as our number one asset and it has to be put inside the money talk, the money conversation, and it’s missing, absent, and we’re blind to it. So, when we can start with the thinking, that our body — and there is money talk and wealth strategy: money management, budgeting, income, expenses, profits. You know, all this money terminology, language, and behaviors, what we have to insert into this conversation is this idea that money is great but for the sake of “why?”. For me, it’s to live a good life and I know you and I are very aligned in that philosophical point of view and we design our lives to live a good life but part of living a good life is our health. Our health is wealth, really and our health, our bodies are an asset because we use our bodies to produce our wealth, one, and to experience our good life. So, if we jeopardize, sacrifice, compromise, don’t take care of our health, all the money in the world is not going to matter. So, our body’s our number one asset and it needs to be – we need to think about how do we invest in this asset and how do we grow this asset just like we do in any of our other financial assets.

Well, one thing that shows up for me as you talk about caring for the asset is I often think of health like having, say, a piece of real estate to speak in your background and what many people have done is they’ve tried to build their income, let’s say, is they’ve over-leverage their asset. They have taken way too many withdrawals without paying down any of the debt. I know I’m kind of springing that metaphor on you, but what are the things that you’ve seen people do either in your first primary industry there in real estate or in others where people have done, unfortunately, out of their way, chasing the dollars of — usually, people are throwing their body at their earning capacity. What have you seen when – maybe, kind of a worst case scenario in that and maybe I’ll ask is that, how did somebody turn that around?

Okay. Well, I actually use a very similar metaphor of what you just threw at me and I think it’s a really great one and how I like to set up some people in their thinking for example, let’s just say, Aunt Betty died and bequeathed you 5 million dollars. Sounds great, doesn’t it? I mean, I think, what I’d be like, “Sounds great. 5 million bucks in the bank.” But, when we don’t understand in money and we just withdraw, withdraw, withdraw, and we don’t ever put deposits back into that bank account or we don’t invest it, let it grow, what’s going to happen over time to that 5 million bucks?

It’s going to degrade.

It’s why majority of lottery winners actually go bankrupt within 5 years of receiving their fortune. But, it’s the withdrawal mentality that it will just — the money will always be there. It’s the same with our health is we live very — the same mindset, we just withdraw, withdraw, withdraw, withdraw and we don’t put any money, investments, time into our overall health and body just like we would any other investment and, as a result, our bodies will break down just like our bank accounts will go bankrupt, our bodies go bankrupt. What we have to figure out is how do — and I don’t like the world balance. It’s overused and I don’t think anybody knows what it means and and this is what I do for a living. I don’t know anybody that’s “in balance”. But, there does have to be this awareness and organizing our lives and our behaviors around taking care of both is earning the money, putting the money to work so that we’re not just using our bodies just to earn income but that we use our bodies to earn income and we use that income to turn into wealth but while, at the same time, we’ll have behaviors where we’re making our bodies as an investment and we’re putting money and resources and time there, too. So, it has be both of these pieces and it’s a delicate “balance”.

So, this last year I was getting certified to become a John Maxwell certified coach down in Florida and he was speaking — I thought he said something brilliant about that topic of balance. He said, “Life is not balanced,” because everybody has that equal and — the definition would be equal and opposite forces creating said balance. There isn’t any. He said, “Life doesn’t come at you balanced.” You’ll have — if you have a business and then the 15 opportunities are going to come all at once. That’s not balanced. When you’re on vacation with your family and taken two weeks and totally checked out, that’s not balanced either. In fact, what we just have to do is build a life that works and we have to be aware of what works. I think, as you put it, our body, our health is such a center point barometer of whether or not we’re off and it has a pretty good mechanism to tell us when it’s not working well.

But we don’t listen. For most of us, we don’t listen. So, we do just take, withdraw, withdraw, withdraw and there is a consequence to that. But, what’s hard about it too, I think, sort of relate to the second part of your question is that, culturally, that’s the way, that’s the game, that’s the rig is you just work, work, work, work, and you achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, and you accumulate, accumulate, accumulate and then you’re on that hamster wheel and it’s really hard to get off and when you’re in that hamster wheel and living a life, according to this cultural requirements, or I’m supposed to you know, they should, so to speak is that what happens is that you do automatically start destroying other parts of your life with the lack of awareness. We really have to get off of that cultural hamster wheel, take a step back, and then look at, “Okay, how do I want my life to be?” and then money is a very important part of it underwrites the cost of what we care about. It underwrites the cost of everything we care about but we have to get to that philosophical place of, “What do I care about it?” and what I’m saying is that our health needs to be one of the — you know, of course, our family and all these more obvious things but our health tends to be something that’s not as obvious. It needs to be something that we have to care about. We have to have the money to care for it and we have to have practices for taking care.

Yeah, that’s great. That’s great and I think that, across the board, just about everybody has seen, where someone can be looked at as — and I think of corporate America, more than any place, there can be the person that’s climbing the ladder at some, say, major technology company here in Seattle and they’re lauded for working 14 hour days. Maybe even celebrated for the fact that it’s okay that they’re creating breakdowns in other areas of their lives because they’re hitting those achievements that are “important”, like a title or an income rather than converse and, sometimes, even the consumption. In fact, more so, and, I mean just even as we sussed it out here a little bit, I think the same way that people make withdrawals on their health and be unhealthy, in which sometimes isn’t always immediately visible unless somebody’s in the practices but they can be immediately unhealthy financially. The problem is, it looks good, right? The person that’s not setting aside at least 15 or 20 percent of their gross income, but has the slamming European car, has the house in just the right zip code, and has kids going to private school but doesn’t have anything building their balance sheet while they’re doing it, is almost — so I think the first part is that, that body component and then you got the what do you do with your cash flow when it hits your balance sheet and, too often, people are willing to give it away to many other parties. You just had a blog post on this on What To Expect When You Stop Overspending – I may have the title wrong. My apologies. Because that one’s deceiving because it actually looks really healthy that they have the car and the house to an outsider. But the balance sheet may be hollowed out in order to produce those accoutrements.

Yeah. Well, and what you’re speaking too there is that since money is not a topic of conversation, since it’s politically incorrect, and that the problem with money, for most of us, is that we think everybody else has the money thing figured out and we don’t so we don’t talk about it. We keep it quiet; we pretend like we know. Nope, very few people have the money thing figured out. So, just get over it and admit that you don’t know a darn thing about it, and the second you admit you know nothing about it, your whole life can change and that’s how you get rich. It’s the day you admit that you don’t know anything about money because how would we? So that’s step one. It’s like, if you go to Alcoholics Anonymous, step 1, you have to admit you’re an alcoholic. Well, in this case, if you’re going to get rich, you have to admit that you don’t know squat about money because part of understanding to get rich is all in the balance sheet. But, if you’re living a high-income life and you’re spending everything on this consumption and buying all the toys in order to culturally fit in, you’ll never be rich because you’re paying all your money one way out to the bank and you’re not becoming your own banker and building your own bank accounts and your own assets. So I could probably — we could stay on this call for hours but, yeah, it’s like that’s — you know, wealth is always on the balance sheet. But, one thing that I say is that this sort of countercultural that I think it’s important to, maybe — it’s somewhat of a shift in thinking is that in normal culture, like what you’re talking about, it’s all about income. It’s an income game; it’s an income and expense game and the more money you make, the more money you spend, the more money you make, the more money you spend. Then there’s that trap that because we’re taught to think that success is about a high income. Part of what I teach is you can get rich without a high income. It’s all on the spending sides. So where we think like our natural tendencies and common sense says, “How I get rich is I need to make more money,” or, “How I solve my money problems as I make more money,” and I’m like, “No, no, no.” I don’t care how much money you make. I can teach you to be rich on any amount of money because here’s the truth. The truth is it’s not an income game, it’s a spending game. You get rich by spending. And it’s like, “Wait. Wait a second. I get rich by spending?” it’s like, “Yes, how you spend your money is how you get rich,” because you can spend it on toys, you can spend it on the big house, you can spend it on the fancy cars. You’re going to get in debt to do it. We all know you can’t get rich and have personal debt anyway. But how you get rich is you spend it. So I teach you, spend money on your investment bucket. So, right of the top of my gross income is like what you teach is you take 15 to 20 percent off, you spend it. Where do you spend it? I spend it into a bank account that I use to invest in financial assets. So I buy real estate, I buy other types of investments but I spend money to buy the real estate. It’s a spending game but I’m not spending it to have the car, I’m spending it to buy the real estate, and the real estate makes me rich, not the car. I spend money on my health as an investment. Why? Because I nearly had my near death experience by withdrawing all my health bank accounts. I can promise you, you don’t want to be there. Don’t do what I did and nearly kill yourself in the achievement, high-income game even if you’re smart and building the assets at the same time and kill yourself in the meantime because who wants to die early? That’s automatically what’s going to happen when we don’t understand health and we don’t invest in our health. Because, the problem, as opposed to your point with money, you can go bankrupt pretty quickly. But your body bankruptcy doesn’t have to happen for 10, 20, 30 years after abuse and by then, it’s too late. So we, by just like with investing in our financial assets, the sooner the better, because of the compounding, the compound interest, the same with our body. The sooner we start investing with our body and taking care of it and know how to and we work on these things together the sum of those two parts is happiness. So, the good life, the wellness, the financial wellness, the health wellness, the relational wellness, but it’s all holistic. That’s why I teach holistic money planning because life is holistic. It’s never balanced but it’s not — but it’s all very integrated and you can’t compartmentalize and we have to learn how to blend all these conversations together. But really, at the end of the day, it’s like my body is an investment and I need to spend to invest in my health and my assets are investments. I have to spend in order to invest in assets. So all that’s a circle back. As you get rich through spending, you don’t get rich through income. Income is just the accelerator. It’s just means that you could — the more money you make is if you have your money working the way, for example, I teach it and others, for example, that the more money you make is just the faster you can accumulate but it’s not it’s not the answer to getting rich. It’s not the answer to having enough money to underwrite the cost of living the good life that you care about that what you want for your family, your lifestyle, and then even hopefully, just leads to the point where you do have a legacy and you can live that ripple effect financially and with your time and your energy that you can only do if you if you have enough left over time and money.

Yeah, yeah. Wait, so, there’s a few things you said there I found myself making some notes. I thought going back, you’ve said about how people feel like everybody’s got their money handled except me and what we notice is that people feel like they can’t open their financial kimono. Because they really feel like everybody else has it handled and I’m going to open my kimono to an advisor and that is they’re going to see that I look horrible under my kimono and not realizing that so many people don’t — even if you look good. Like every now and again, we get a chance to meet with a client that’s pretty well squared away and they still feel like they’re somehow lacking. And why? Because of, I think, largely because of much of the consumption is out there and we don’t talk about money. That’s what I loved about your book, Falling For Money, is it talks about why we should talk about money and why it’s okay and one of the best thing for you to do to improve our performance is to talk about it. Should anyone just want some real solid academic grounding to what Krisstina just said, there’s a book called Stop Acting Rich by then now, unfortunately late Thomas Stanley. But he wrote about the fact that so many people have income affluence or what he calls an aspirational but don’t have the balance sheet wealth and almost all of us are trying to mimic an avatar that really only exists — our level of consumption only exists if people were worth about 20 million dollars and have over 2 million dollars of income on top of it. So there is one more point I want to make there that is — what is the biggest, baddest part of town in your area? What’s it called, Krisstina? Like where the big, awesome houses are that would cost some 15 million, something like that?

Westlake.

Westlake? Okay. So we have a place like that out here called Medina is one or Clyde Hill would be another and they’re beautiful places. One of the things we talked about — I’m going to hit this math quickly because I don’t want to bore people with it. We may put it in the description of this podcast so you could look at it later. But if you have somebody with a 15 million dollar home and then, let’s say, in our world it’s a $2 million boat up here in the Pacific Northwest sitting on a dock and then let’s just say a $3 million vacation home. That’s 20 million dollars of stuff that’s not even an asset. That stuff will cost just to keep it as it is and that group of assets probably is going to cost about 400 thousand dollars a year, maybe a little bit more, just to keep as is, keep the boat maintained, keep the taxes paid on the homes. Let’s just call it 400 period just to keep it like it is. To have 400, we need 10 million capital at work just to maintain the 15 million dollars assets. So before we go to the grocery store, we got to have 15 million dollars of those consumables, the two houses and the boat – yacht, I guess in that case – set aside so that’s 25 million and then if that family wants to have a halfway decent lifestyle at what probably is the group that they play in, it probably requires about, let’s just call it 800 thousand of gross taxable income. Maybe that knocks down to 600 after capital gains tax because it’s not all income tax at that point, so that means I got to have another $20 million. So that coming it’s gotta be worth 45 million dollars to be actually balance sheet wealthy at that level of consumption and even in those neighborhoods, most of them don’t have that level of balance sheet. They are still aspirational because their balance sheets couldn’t support where they are now. So, that’s one of the things that we try to teach to help people feel more solace in not having their kimonos squared away is that even the people that have — that person, if they’re worth 20 million dollars with all that stuff, they still may not be wealthy. They’re still counting on a 3 or 4 million dollar year income to keep the bills paid.

Well, and that’s what we call a high-income poor person.

Yes. I like that distinction.

I’ve been that myself. That really took me on my money journey because I grew up poor. I mean, I grew up very poor and very embarrassingly poor and was made fun of and so I was very motivated from a young age that I didn’t want to be poor, I didn’t like being poor, I didn’t like being made fun of and I’ve maybe had some of the natural just entrepreneurial spirit for my young age. So, from right out of the gate out of college, I made a high-income for a 20-something-year-old and made more money than I should have been making at that age, really, because I had no financial awareness or prudence. So, what did I do? I mean, I bought everything I couldn’t afford as a kid and I thought that was — I thought, “Oh my god, this is American Dream. I’m –”

Because that’s all you could see.

Yeah, but I was like, “I’m effin’ living it. This is American Dream,” and then all of a sudden, life happens. But what I do, I had a high income that my entire paycheck of my high income went to debt payments, house payment, two car payments, boat payments because we have Lake Austin and Lake Travis here in Austin and then kids in private school payments and vacation payments but, boy, don’t pay cash. You put it on your credit card and so it’s just that was the American — that’s what we are all, I think, trained to think or whatever. So then, life happens, get divorced, single mom, lose everything. I’m in a $100,000 credit card debt and lost my houses, lost everything, and had $100,000 of tax liens because I forgot to pay the IRS because I’d pay them at the end of the year but, guess what, there’s never enough money at the end of the year. So, I mean, I just found myself then, in my early 30s, in total financial despair really right before you and I met, in fact, and then that was part of what lured me to where I met you and the discourse was because I didn’t even have any money when I signed up for that course, Paul. I put that, actually, on my credit card just knowing, desperately, that I had to figure out this money thing because I was broke, I was in almost $200,000 of debt between credit card and IRS, I was single, two kids, and I was in financial despair and thought, “Okay, this income is not about income because I made a high income and I’m broke, and I’m in debt, and I’m in despair.” So, then I realized I was a high-income poor person. I was one. What a high-income poor person is is when you’re one to two paychecks away from disaster – financial disaster and when if you lose one or two paychecks and you find yourself in really bad financial crisis, you’re a high-income poor person, which is most of these people. They’re depending on that high-income paycheck – doctor paycheck or lawyer paycheck or whatever somebody’s high-income paychecks are going to last forever and one thing goes wrong and you can lose everything very quickly.

If I may, going back to that, before you started getting on your money journey, the thing that occurs to me – I could be wrong about this but let me ask, I’m going to take a wild guess that, to most people around you, they may have seen some of your situation change, all that, but there’s a great deal of effort even amidst of people’s lives spending out financial when we’ve been on that consumption track, there’s an enormous amount of effort still exerted to make sure that people don’t know that I’ve somehow taken a hit, financially. Did you go through that where you had almost that poll of, “I still need to look good but I got to get this stuff squared away.” I mean, I know that’s a feeling I’m asking you to go back over a decade to but did that show up?

I mean, there was some but I lost everything, Paul. I had to borrow money, literally, like kid you not, to pay the light bills. So, talk about shame, being humbled. I grew up poor. I couldn’t go to a family member and say, “Hey, bail me out.” It was desperate. So, reaching, I think, that far, that low of a point and being so — despair, really, of I don’t even know what to do. I don’t know how I’m going to feed my kids this month. You don’t care about that so much anymore when you get to that level of despair. I just had to figure out a way to sort of dig myself out but that was a godsend because, at least, at that age, I did become an avid studier of money and wealth and it’s really become my own personal life, work on the side because I realized, “Not that. That doesn’t work,” and a high-income poor person, I was poor. I was the same thing as being poor because the day I lost my paycheck, I was poor again. So then that’s where I realized like, “Okay, there’s a lot of wealthy people out there,” and that sent me on a journey to where I am today. I mean, the good news is – I like to use myself as an example – is I’ve been able to accumulate a lot of wealth, like balance sheet asset wealth and I can live off of my wealth. My wealth does fund my lifestyle so if I wanted to quit today, I could. I’m far from over and I’m far — you know, I’m at the beginning of this but when you understand the mechanics of how money works and some of the net worth numbers and you take about every million dollars’ worth about 40 or 50 thousand dollars of income and you multiply that. So, the numbers, you really just threw out but once I understood this, how money really operates, then you do just — and you understand its mechanics and money has principles and it doesn’t really matter if you want that fancy-smancy car, you can’t have that and build your wealth at the same time so you have to make a choice and life’s choices. So, I’m not judging anyone either. I mean, if you — I’m just here to teach you money and how money operates and if you want to make that choice, you know what? I’m willing to kind of play this lottery and it’s more important to me that I have the two Mercedes in the driveway and a house in a certain neighborhood then build my wealth, then that’s your choice. I don’t judge that; I’m just saying, let me teach you the potential consequences of that so that you’ll at least have the information to make choice. The problem is, since we don’t talk about money, it’s of the agenda of a lot of the planners and so on and so forth to keep people ignorant and naive to kind of take their money that we don’t know. So I just wanted to put people in the know so that we can make choices. Then you and I were talking off-air and part of what I teach in money is a lot of what you’re talking about. I teach certain philosophies that are more in tune to being able to live a life easily – more easily give some of that stuff up that you were just talking about. When you do adopt more of a minimalism philosophy, you just don’t care about stuff anymore. I can’t tell you — I’ve got a lot of money. I can’t tell you the last time I went to a mall and bought something. So, they’ve even started to locate money and meaning and get rid of all this stuff and the heaviness and the things that anchor us down metaphorically and literally in some cases but when we can start changing even some of our philosophy and get out of this American culture: you make a high income and you buy shit to, “No, I want a life of meaning and money and the rights of cost to what I care about and I know what I care about, and I know how much money’s enough to fund what I care about,” it’s a very different conversation but it’s the conversation that very few people are having because they don’t even know it’s to be had.

Well, and you said something there about the way that people have gotten consumed in your blog post, talked about the way it feels. We talk a lot about the idea that what you have to do is, first, design. You got to set a strategy. You got to divorce yourself, if you will, from where I’m at in my work or where I’m at in my investments. What’s the outcome you want? For you to have the future you want, what has to be true? Then say, “Now, I need to have this much money da-da.” I’ve been in front of large audiences of people that are high-income executives or business owners, entrepreneurs, and when I drop that 4% distribution number and that’s the consumption number — it doesn’t matter if you got bonds, real estates, stocks, whatever, you can’t consume more than 4 because even real estate’s got to be repaired. You’ve got to reserve. You watch when people are — you see the people do the math in their head and then they go like — they just go ashen. Like you can see the gut check that just happened for 80% of the audience and many of them, especially business owners are thinking that I’ll just sell the business and that will be enough but they don’t get the multiple they got to have. They got to have 25 times that income – 20 to 25 – to make that even possible, let alone a reality. I think you’re being soft even when you say people should know about the potential consequences. You could maybe drop potential. It’s just the consequences.

Yes. It’s been has – but I think it circles back to even a lot of where we started this conversation in that a couple of different things that we’ve touched on is number one, it’s really understanding that all those other people that we think have money figured out don’t. They’re in the same narrative and same lifestyle because this is the culture we’re in. So, another metaphor I like to give is that when you’re sick and you need to go to the doctor and they tell you to undress, you have to get naked. It’s uncomfortable but the only way for the doctor to help you, in some cases, is you’re naked. They’re opening wide up and so if you can’t be naked in front of your doctor, he or she can’t help you. I like to use that same metaphor with money. It’s like it’s okay if you understand that nobody else has the money thing figured out either and so it’s okay to be naked. Yeah, you’re probably – when you open up to your planner and to money coaches or whatever, just be honest and understand that it’s okay. You’re just opening it up. It’s going to feel uncomfortable. Everybody feels a little bit naked, everybody probably has less than what they think they should when they show up. But if you’re going to move to this other side that we’re talking about, you have to get naked. You have to meet with a planner. You’re going to have to get some help and just know it comes with the territory if you want to really have riches and wealth. Like really.

I hope you enjoyed part 1 here with Krisstina. I look forward to you joining us in our next episode with part 2 with Krisstina where you’ll get a chance to hear even more about the things that she’s doing for herself and her coaching clients to help them design and build a good life.

Hey, this is Corey again. I just wanted to say it’s been great to have you here listening to this episode. You can find out more information about us on our website, www.sfgwa.com or you can find us on Facebook under Sound Financial Group. We’d love to hear any questions or comments from you there. Who knows? You may hear one on a future episode. For our full disclosure, you can go to description of our podcast series, this episode’s description, or our website.

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