PODCAST EPISODE 296 – Should I Buy Life Insurance for My Kids?

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0:12

Hey guys, welcome to podcast right before Korean I jump in, I just want to say be sure you comment and like and subscribe. It makes a world of difference and more people see this content because you do that and you get to see it more often. So that even if every episode isn’t of interest to you, some of them are going to contribute to you having a better financial future. Today we’re going to be talking about juvenile life insurance and the way that Dave Ramsey got things wrong. In that episode. I did a couple of episodes back. Hope you enjoy this one. And we’ll look forward to seeing you next week. Hello, and welcome to the sound finance group podcast. My name is Paul Adams. I’m here today to share with you that for the first time in the sound financial group podcast history. Cory and I have the same shirt on now that did take Cory and his sense of style picking out the shirts and branding them to sound financial group. But we’re wearing the same shirt today with slightly different light.

1:08

No, we have a different shirt on. Do we know? Pick these how you would pick. They’re not the same color. Look, I even have this like are you attached here? Yeah, no, no, this right here, see as a stripe.

1:27

Oh, that’s very, I don’t have that struck. That’s Cory. He’s racing stripes. Everybody just let you know that he is. He is quick. He runs competed cross country, I think he was Presidential Medal of Honor winner at his high school for running something like now.

1:47

I was 10th in the state, my senior year. And we did win three state championships out of four years, I had to go look through all those records. Because I’m running a marathon. I’m signed up to run a marathon next year. And so my coach wanted to see my old times. So I’m not just bringing that up out of nowhere we did, I did have to research at all

2:06

Corina, I did do a 5k. At a some event we were at he was showing me the tricks of like what guys would do in cross country like shove another dudes hip around corners if he was close to you, or my favorite still quarry that he told me is like, if you if you know you’re out of sight of your opponent just sprint super hard while they’re out of sight and slow down.

2:32

Right? They come back around, they’re like what? Yeah,

2:36

my my favorite version that before we get to our topic today is that in the ultra marathon game, the only thing that you can see at night at those 100 mile races is the brake lights of the support car for the guy in front of you. Yeah, what they would do is start putting black electrical tape slowly over the brake lights. So that to the guy behind you, looks like getting over there. And they might not be it just demoralizes the opponent. So for all of you today, speaking of demoralizing a couple of weeks ago, a couple of weeks ago when he talked to you and and showed you evidence like not just opining opinion or trying to be somehow crappy to a significant financial celebrity, but rather to point out that despite the authority somebody might communicate, or the condescension with which they communicate to you, they can still be very, very, very wrong. And we showed how in that episode that Dave Ramsey doesn’t understand the basics of life insurance and how it works. And it only seemed appropriate that we should do a series talking about life insurance and the basics of how it works. Giving all of you better ability to understand, not with a particular slant, we’re not telling you to call us and do this. In fact, we don’t do that. If you come out of the woodwork to us and say we want to buy a life insurance policy, we do not do it without a full planning engagement. And without looking at everything in somebody’s world to help make an appropriate fiduciary recommendation around what’s going to best suit their aims. So this is all education for you. So that when you bump into one of these, or if you have a whole life policy, how does even work, and we’re going to cover the other types of life insurance in subsequent episodes. So Cory when we talk about like setting aside money for a kid the biggest benefit they have is time. Right? That compounding over time that like any anybody listening to the podcast, let’s say average age is 35 Years Old Navy. And as you listen to this podcast, you’ve got just the compounding curve you have between now and six. Do you find but a child has 30 more years.

5:03

And every parent says I, you know, if I would have known what I know now when I was your age, I would so they want to give their child the gift of that time that they didn’t have. Exactly wonderful, it’s a beautiful thing to want to set some money aside for your for your kiddos. Now we’re now you’re getting into this life insurance on a child theme that we’re jumping into today, I’m not jumping too far ahead, my

5:34

nose perfect, keep going.

5:36

I was well, it’s uh, you know, the financial industry, we talk about big box financial retail, affectionately, as sometimes behaving kind of like the penny jar at the gas station, like have a little extra leave, have a penny, leave a penny, right, have an extra money, put it into something that we can sell you. And that’s how folks develop this wave of 30 different financial decisions and products and a jumble of a financial junk drawer of a balance sheet. Paul, I we haven’t talked about this, I actually just remembered my very first introduction to what they call juvenile life insurance policies. That’s when I was at the Financial Planning Division of MetLife. Very first, you know, very beginning of my career call, I don’t even remember how I got in touch with this gentleman, he probably submitted some kind of question to MetLife website. And then I was answering that or something like like that. It was probably a call because they weren’t really have a website that worked that way back then and trying to realize, but But I tried to set a meeting with him and and the email he wrote back to me was, he had met with somebody else, some other financial advisor, and they had recommended putting a significant life insurance policy on his son, which he then found out was going to bring a significant commission for that agent. So the reason the guy didn’t want to meet with me, was some other financial adviser made this recommendation and just like poisoned him to want to talk to anybody in that world. So there’s a lot of there’s, it’s gonna be a very emotional issue and a big set of reactions and, and like baggage built into thinking about life insurance on our, on our kids. So that’s, that’s introduction to this. That’s where that’s where I first started in thinking about this, this topic.

7:38

And in my, in my world, I started my career at Northwestern Mutual. And at Northwestern Mutual, I don’t know if it’s exactly this way still, but at the time lives, they would say how many lives have you written and that’s what mattered. If you wrote over 100 lives a year, you’re like a celebrity inside the office. Now, granted, they didn’t care what size the policy was. So you might be like, famous in the office for doing over 100 lives a year and still not have built a very good business. And I remember when it hit me was when somebody said something to the effect of lives count won’t pay my mortgage. And it just opened my eyes. Because when you start in an industry, like many people start young in the financial services industry, you’re sort of taking whatever is told to you as gospel. So we pitched a lot of juvenile policies in that sales role that wasn’t doing planning, it was trying to sell them something that would be good for them. It wasn’t unethical, but it was like very pointed as a sale.

8:46

Now because you’d walk in thinking you were going to talk life insurance for dad, or maybe mom and dad and then maybe walk out with five, policy lives down for that. 100 lives right one meeting. Yeah,

8:59

yep. And so when we think about kid life insurance, let’s talk about what should minimally be in place first. Minimally, what we should have in place first on the parents is a human life value level of at least term insurance. Now, we’re not the today we’re not going to cover human life value, we will cover that in our next episode, and just the appropriate amounts and types of life insurance to consider initially,

9:28

but just basically speaking, if you don’t have appropriate coverage on yourself as the parents just stop there. Yeah, keep going on to talk about your kids until you get your coverage to the right level. And that’s something you said it a perfect way. When we were talking about this as a topic. I don’t know if you can remember. It was like, it was like, you don’t want to set up a situation where you’re everything’s gonna work out great for your kid for 50 years, if the parents, everything’s okay with your parents if they don’t die, right, exactly endorsed, but life insurance should be like, yes alive on the parents first.

10:10

Yeah, because that’s where the biggest financial risk is, if we go back to Insurance insurance primary purpose is to take a risk off of you. We’ve talked about that, in prior episodes, this idea of self insurance, there is no self insurance, because your million dollars in cash to replace your house because you don’t want to have homeowners insurance. If your house burns down, you lose a million dollars in cash, you did not insure it at all, you just took risk with a million dollars. In this case, if we’re buying life insurance, first, we want to make sure we take care of the biggest risk, which is if we have two breadwinners, we need to insure both of them if we have a primary breadwinner and a stay at home spouse, they both still need to be insured because they both have a highly economically valuable role in that household. So the kids should be on that list after we’ve at least made sure we’ve protected that children from the parent passing. Now let’s talk about why you would do it. We already talked about age and compounding. We’ll look at some actual numbers here in a moment. But there’s an insurability question because while you’re young, you also have the most years to be able to compound an investment. But you also have the best health you’re probably ever going to have. Right. And for some of you listening, you may have tried to get life insurance at some point you can’t get it now. Something happened, you know, there was the car accident when you were 25. There was the diagnosis when you were 32. You know, we had a friend who he just went on a cruise. And while I was on a cruise, he had a cold and he was drinking margaritas, and Nyquil. Which you know, just not Nyquil. He wasn’t like doing scissor like you wouldn’t pour it in the margarita want to be clear. But it was like he was doing that not drinking enough water flew home from the cruise. And the next day had deep vein thrombosis. And they literally told me, you won’t be able to buy life insurance for a decade. Because this needs to be totally out of your system when you make sure it’s not going to reoccur. So we’re only is we don’t buy insurance with our money. You buy it with your health, it gets cash flowed with your money. So in a moment, here, we’re going to look at this child’s policy. But you can add things like a guaranteed insurability option rider so that not only do you get a little policy for your kids, my three kids have life insurance. And they all have an automatic increased rider or a guaranteed increased rider meaning that I can increase the coverage, or they can increase the coverage or they’re an adult getting an option about every three years till they’re 45 years old. So it’s a great gift for the kids to be able to begin to protect their family before they even have the family. For me, what I’ve thought about Corey is sending them over his wedding gifts one day, you know, as like a starter little bank that they can work from.

13:15

And I have life insurance and both my kids as well. And I think about

13:20

anything without you saying it because I was like, oh, like given away.

13:25

I wanted to let you finish your thought to all that. So let’s see nice. So we I think about being able to sign it over or not sign it over, depending on how their life has developed in the position that they’re they’re in. So it’s it’s a great way to start building tools to help them make that transition into adulthood. And, you know, minor, two and a half and eight months like it’s a long time. For us we got a long road to see how how they develop. So there are some benefits. And we’re going to talk about some math to purposefully kind of take some wind out of the sails of the sales process of juvenile life insurance. Because I think it’s overhyped for a lot of in a lot of cases. And we’ll we’ll get that math. And it can be it can be useful.

14:26

Yep. One last thing that I do think is just important to talk about before we look at an actual juvenile life insurance policies, the fact that people have concerns like ah, you know, I don’t want to benefit from the death of my child, whatever all that don’t worry, you won’t know. Not only will you not because of how low the likelihood is. But also Insurance companies do not issue insurance for more than what something is worth. You can’t insure your house a million dollar house for five mil Listen, you can’t insure my Ford Explorer to get replaced with a Lamborghini. Like they just don’t do those things. So the insurance company is not going to issue an amount of insurance that you’re, you know, it’ll help with whatever the family has to deal with because they lost a child. I mean, it’s just unbelievable. Yep. But it’s more about giving that long term gift to your child, not about benefiting in any way from their passing, but rather, to set them up well, for their living. So with that, you ready look at look at an actual illustration here. So what we’re going to be showing you here is a high early cash value, whole life contract. There are a few companies that do them, this one is MassMutual. And what that contract says is basically, they’ll very large upfront commissions that happen with many Whole Life policies. And that can be mitigated with certain policy provisions. But this policy is built to have a lowered amount of commission and more of a long term. Like basically, it’s kind of the same amount of commissions you get in the first year of most policies, but sort of occurs over 10 years. And then, I think that’s it builds cash value a little bit earlier. But the important thing is, the same policy we’re going to look at right now could look similar from even the same company, and yet not have the growth potential because they didn’t engineer it in a way that it drew down the compensation enough for the advisor, that it really left the maximum amount growing on your side of the balance sheet. Alright, so this is the columns and columns of numbers, I think I should zoom in on this a little more, because if people are watching this on a mobile device, good luck. Let’s see, this might make it a little bit visible, if you recently got your prescription upgraded. So what we’re looking at is we have a one year old here, that’s what the guy called into for the Dave Ramsey show. And as we discussed this, you guys can make the call for yourself whether or not you think this is a god awful idea. Because you’re going to see the actual numbers, not just somebody throwing an opinion around. So the easiest way to look at this is here’s the amount of money we put in every year. Now we just did 10,000 to make it really round. And we funded it up near its IRS maximum. Now, it’s just that if you exceed that maximum, and you can learn more about that if you search whole life on our channel, you’ll see where we sort of explained what we call the tephra Tamar corridor. But what you’ll see is it’s going to grow and cash value relatively quickly, because we intentionally engineered it that way. And we just did $10,000 to make it round for everybody listening. You know, most people don’t put a full 10 In they, you know, I think my kids might be a couple grand or three grand a year that I put it into one of them. So $10,000 goes in. And at the end of the first year, Cory, we have $6,500 1500. So what it costs you that year $3,500.

18:34

Right, and we

18:35

only have 6500 in cash that we could pull out now we do have a million dollars death benefit. But the real cost to like your balance sheet, if you put 10,000 in the first year is $3,500. Then the next year happens and you put in 10,000 and it grows by 7300. Now for a total of 13,900. See what I’m illustrating this is for many of you watching this, you went to college, maybe you got advanced degrees, or maybe you started a business. But in every one of those scenarios, there was a period of time of investment before it yielded results you might have gotten if you’re a physician, you may have gone to school for eight plus years. You know, to be able to do what you’re doing now or as a business owner, you might have gone through the early years of having a really blood sweat and tears into the business before it was truly profitable. It’s not that much different with a tool like life insurance. Because like for instance, the first day you buy a piece of real estate, how much money do you have in it? Well, what you paid minus about 10% transaction fees to sell it right. Right. So most tool if you put money in your 401 K, how much of that do you have access to none of it unless you’re willing willing to pay significant taxes and penalties that first day so many areas of financial products and investments that we deal with? Have a similar sort of startup cost or inaccessibility to capital, but we treat it like the dots on the page on the 401k is all ours when in fact 35% of it belongs to the IRS. So what we’re talking through is this thing growing to the point that it’s functioning the way we want it. We’re building something. So the next year, Cory, so that your cost you like, $2,700?

20:26

You know, next year, next year, call me 500.

20:30

Yeah, about 500. So, I guess, so somebody, if they did this might call their advisor their first year, it’d be like, hey, this thing didn’t work very well. You know, and then the adviser reminds them the whole strategy and they’re okay, another year, then the next year, they call a little bit upset, but they remembered it got explained the prior year. Now, by the third year, given they have a million dollars life insurance, they only paid a net $500 for it. They might not even call but Corey that next year. What did it cost us?

21:05

Well, that year, it actually grew by a little bit more. Yeah. Yep. So $1,049 of increase for the $10,000 premium for anyone who’s

21:20

Oh, yes, for our thank you for our audio listeners. So to that point, we’ve actually made money but nobody sends out a 1099 because of section 7702 of the IRS Code. Now, what you’ll also notice, again, I’m just going to speak to what Dave Ramsey was saying. We have 1.2 9 million, or 249 million have life insurance death benefit will start at 916. How did that happen? Because dividends are purchasing paid up additions, and that over funding is buying paid up editions of life insurance. So what’s a paid up edition of life insurance? A paid up edition for life insurance is if you could imagine this, like you’re going through a store. And as you walk through the store, there’s a little booth and little booth says life insurance one payment, and you walk up and you say, Hey, I’m 44 years old, how much life insurance can I buy with 20 bucks and they say, you get $40 a death benefit plus the cash value grow? And you say, Okay, you just buy that. That’s what’s happening over and over again, instead of the life insurance that’s both driving its growth and keeping it tax free. What’s that? Cory?

22:27

I just I don’t know, it made me think of Lucy and peanuts, you know, her like psychiatrists, desk, you know, five cents for it’s kind of like that you just like walk up and get little delivered? And you’re, you’re done? Yeah,

22:42

that’s exactly right. And so that’s happening inside the life insurance for two reasons. One, it’s strengthening the policy. But most importantly, it’s following section 7702 of the IRS code that has this growth not be taxed. So as we jump back in, now, after that year, for we’ve not recovered all the money that we put into it yet. But now on a go forward basis. From that year four and beyond. This life insurance doesn’t have a net cost to me. Because every time I put $1 in, it’s growing by more than that dollar. Mm. Okay, that’s really important. Now, here’s what trips people up. So we know we’re putting in $10,000 a year, well, it takes Intel, the ninth year on this juvenile policy, till the cash value exceeds what we put in. But what you have to keep in mind is it’s been growing fast. And we put money in every year since you’re four on this illustration, which I think we’ll have this posted somewhere where people can download this illustration if you need it, or want it and that gives all the disclosures and everything else and guarantees blah, blah, blah. But by year four, so all we’ve had to do for these next years is we are growing the cash beyond enough to recover the initial component where it cost us but an easy way to think about it is those first three years, we’re kind of paying for the death benefit. And then your four and beyond is building my cash value. But as we scroll forward here, let’s take our kid out to age 18. And now we have $240,000 of cash value, I guess 9010 years anything Yeah, at $20,000 of growth that year, and now the child has $2.6 million for the life insurance. Now again, we did this based upon $10,000. The math is not difficult. If you guys want to see what this would look like using this chart while you’re watching the YouTube video. You can do that. All you have to do if you said I won’t put 5000 in. You don’t even need somebody to run you an illustration. You could just go in and take 50% of all these numbers. it’ll be super close to what an actual $5,000 contribution would be to this policy.

25:04

You know, one of the things I think about here, and I think about my kids being 1820, like coming out of college, or not going to college, or just starting a business or a job, like, it’s possible with this policy, and again, 10,000, depending on how many kids you have in the family, that may be more than you’re doing for each kid. But like in this kid, maybe they don’t ever need to buy any more life insurance, again, in their lives, it’s just all taken care of. So you’ve, you’ve given them this cash that’s growing. And you could have, you know, Dave Ramsey has a whole argument about, well, you could put it in a good growth mutual fund. And I mean, he’s says the wrong thing about how like your expectation is there. But yes, the stock market will always grow some dollars bigger by them by themselves, although you don’t have anywhere near the stability of estimating where it’s going to be at along the way. And then there’s this life insurance piece, that’s another benefit. And you know, for their family, like you can do things for your kids just because you want them to have it not because of any math to exactly like you can just say I like the idea of them not having to think about getting life insurance, and they get married and having one last thing to go do as a part of that transaction. And just knowing that it’s all locked in like that just makes me feel good. And that’s one part of it.

26:36

Yeah, like think about now your child has $2.6 million with a life insurance, let’s say they were otherwise only going to buy term insurance their entire life, how much and lost opportunity cost? Did you say them, save them by doing this. And this is what you can do, if you want to make that get, I think it’s a gift of love to our kids to get them life insurance. But if you want to get them this life insurance, you do that with the consistent cash flow dollars that you have, like, you make a commitment that you’re gonna put in $3,000 a year for your kid. And then you’re still gonna get like gifts that come in and other things and parents money or Yeah, set that aside in an investment account for your kid. Now there’s there’s different philosophies and different situations whether or not you keep that in your name, or you put it in their name. But you can take those dollars that sometimes come in or sometimes bigger, and sometimes smaller, maybe parts of your bonus you want to set aside for your kids put that in another account, let this be the consistent dollars that are growing, that kind of sets your kid up. And like for my kids, I show them how much cash value they have. And I show them how the policy is working. Because I want them to go into a world where they’ve been educated about money. Now this is going to be my speaking to Dave Ramsey is that I want my kids to understand the financial decisions that we’re making right now on their behalf. Now my kids by the year end will be 1112 13. Yes, if you’re asking they were all born in 30 months, my wife is a saint. That’s five years of diapers by the way, solid, we didn’t get the next one out of diapers for the next one showed up. But we we are explaining those things to them. We are not talking to them like they’re idiots and saying this is just what you do. We’re coming alongside them helping them understand financial tools. Now, granted, I’m different. This is what I do for a living. I’ve been doing it 25 years. So that is a little different. But I want them to learn so that later they can make their own decisions. If what we did is we only told them, This is always a good idea. And this is always dumb. I haven’t actually enabled them. We wouldn’t do that with talking to our kids. You know about cheating on a test. Let’s say that’s bad, you shouldn’t do it is like no, let’s talk about all the consequences of cheating. how other people look at you how no one will trust you later, you can make the call, I’m going to let you know about the consequences of that call. That’s what we should be doing with money. And that’s what I wish folks like Dave would do. Because yeah, you could do this. You could also say, I’m just gonna put a truckload of money into investments for my kids. And I don’t know that that’s an awful thing either. But it’s not that utilizing whole life insurance for your kid is somehow hurting them is somehow destroying their financial life or destroying yours. It’s a different type of tool. It’s a tool that is rated by the Financial Planning boards as something as safe as certificates of deposits. And yet people can Perret to something as volatile as the s&p 500, as if that’s a fair comparison. Yeah, that would be like me having my RV that I drive around with luxury and a bed in the back and you know, microwave and all of that, and somebody walked up to me with a Ferrari and go Mike go faster, I’m like, yeah, it’s gonna be a super uncomfortable ride, and you got nowhere to sleep. It’s just a different comparison. And that’s what people do with financial tools all the time. And if anybody gives you advice in a way, that they are dismissive of your, your initial orientation, instead of coming alongside you, and introducing you to a different way to look at it, because they may disagree with you or agree with you. But even if somebody agrees with you, if they don’t help educate you, as to why your belief is actually a well grounded assessment, then you’re not growing financially, you’re not learning more. And that’s what we hope to do with the show today, there’s even more tools to notice, I listened

31:00

to y’all have to listen to the episodes that Paul does, when I’m gone to make sure you know, we don’t need to adjust our legal budget. And so that episode, Dave Ramsey, the part two where he’s just saying banks would never own life insurance

31:21

wouldn’t be allowed to none of them knew life insurance was this quote, and wouldn’t even be allowed to by the FDIC and the banking regulators.

31:29

And like, you just have to open a large banks balance sheet, and it’s a line item on most of them. And we’ve done that and seen and you handled that beautifully. So it’s just a different kind of asset. And I also just like, we wouldn’t tell anybody planning their own future to put all of their money in one thing. If you’re doing things for your kids, probably not just one thing. Like it’s not the one answer. So, you know, both of us. And we would say that, like, if you’re not already maxing out your 401 K, or your retirement account contributions, like probably don’t do a whole life policy for your kids, like, get your seatbelts on, get your mask on yourself first, and then move on to those other other things. And that’s how you can help your kid is making sure you’re taking care of yourself, so that they don’t have to take care of you in the future. Like that’s a great first step and help your kids for their, for their future. And then there’s lots of other things you can do. And this is one of them. Well, and for those of

32:33

you who made it here to the end of the episode, I’m going to do better at this, but really subscribe, really liked this video. Because then if you subscribe, you’re more likely to run across this kind of content, you might even not like Cory and I. But if you’re not getting solid financial advice, at least scrolling past you on YouTube, or coming in periodically, in your podcast feed, you may not end up with all the information you want to have to make the decisions for the future, that future yours you is going to have to have. And the thing that we can’t forget is for all of us one day, we’re going to meet old us and old us we owe them a lot of money. And we just hope that this episode, and all of our episodes in this podcast help you better prepare to meet future you without shame, without guilt, without realizing you had ignored some very important things. And you now have to live with that all the rest of your lives. This is a lot of fun. All of those of you that listen that are going to keep on with life insurance in the future because it’s serious. So marketing, everything. CDs, probably we’re gonna we don’t mean fancy restaurant pickup, or trying to harvest a lot of noise we can have and so we got to deal with it. The ability to design and build a good life. And that’s why that’s part of our mission statement. Cory, anything else you want to leave with everyone with today?

34:26

Yep, yep. Well, and I would say, let’s all get in the comments below and say any other topic or something that Dave says put a link to one of his videos in there. And we’ll check it out. And we’re happy to talk about it or any other. You can even send us stuff from Finn talk. Just put that in the description. And I’ll go check out those videos and Cory and I’ll respond to them. And as always, guys, we hope you join us next week. Be sure to like and subscribe. And we hope that this app Episode has been a part of you being able to design and build a good life.

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