PODCAST EPISODE 263 – Secure Act 2.0 and your Retirement Plan




      • 00:00 – Episode begins, Paul welcomes the show.
      • 01:00 – Setting up the episode topic, “The Secure Act 2.0” 
      • 02:25 – Expanded enrollment and retirement plans 
      • 03:55 – The Savers Match 
      • 05:09 – Student Loan Payments and 401k Matching 
      • 08:30 – Lightening round begins 
      • 08:40 – Improving coverage for part time employees 
      • 09:05 – Employee gift card giveaways for retirement plan participation 
      • 09:35 – Emergency access to long-term savings accounts. 
      • 10:05 – Lost and found accounts 
      • 10:35 – Higher catch up limits 
      • 11:02 – Catch up contributions as Roth 
      • 12:15 – Changes to required minimum distributions 
      • 13:00 – Automatic IRA rollovers 
      • 13:30 – Self-assesed emergency access to 401k 
      • 14:05 – Penalty free access to 401k’s 
      • 15:10 – Exemption for certain automatic portability transactions 
      • 15:45 – No RMD for Roths 
      • 16:05 – Catch up contribution rate change  
      • 16:20 – One time election for giving opportunities from retirement savings. 
      • 17:20 – Prohibited transactions 
      • 18:00 – Tax credits and provisions available for new plans 
      • 18:55 – Increasing limits on simple IRA plans. 
      • 20:38 – 401k for Sole Proprietor’s 
      • 21:20 – 401k plan amendment fee’s incoming. 
      • 22:15 – Employer contributions to Roths now available. 
      • 24:40 – 529’s can move in a new direction 
      • 25:25 – Looking forward with these new regulations and provisions. 
      • 27:30 – Episode ends, thank you for listening

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[Tweet “60-63 year olds now have a new retirement tool, $10k or half the going catch up rate can be added to a retirement savings. #YourBusinessYourWealth”]

[Tweet “The blending of emergency access and long-terms saving accounts can be a concern if used poorly. #YourBusinessYourWealth”]

[Tweet “Everyone is about to get hit with a 401k plan amendment fee.#YourBusinessYourWealth”]



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Full Episode Transcription



Hello and welcome to your business your wealth. My name is Paul Adams I am joined as always, by Corey Shepherd, who is president of sound Financial Group, a good friend of mine co host of your business, your wealth, and a man who I frustrated to one of the highest degrees I ever have right before the show. Because I’m so excited about my exuberance.


I thought we decided that episode is just going to be my intro for 15 minutes just saying good things about we’re gonna just call it a day.


Yeah, I was getting used sandwich comments where it’s like a good piece of bread, good piece of bread, and then something in the middle you don’t like I learned that same HR workshop, like when I was 12. I don’t know. That is like the dumbest thing. I’m gonna say something nice to somebody, and I’m gonna punch you in the gut. Something nice after


I say I learned not to do that. It was like, because they said no one likes a poop sandwich. It says they didn’t say, yeah,


absolutely. Well, y’all, we are here to talk about something kind of fun and exciting today. We just had this new bill passed called the secure act 2.0. And it is the second version of the secure act, that now has some more options in it as it relates to us listener what you can do with your 401 K plan this year, there are a few of the topics that Corey is going to tell us which ones we’re going to cover right now. So I don’t mess that part up. But then we’re gonna go into a lightning round, where in 30 seconds or less, it’s gonna go to core your eye. And we’re gonna have to explain how that provision of the bill will affect you in 30 seconds or less. So with that, Corey, where what proof. So these first ones, we’re going to talk a little more in depth, then we’re


without a 32nd timer, though we won’t take too much longer, but they deserve some, some recognition. And this is this is compromise at work, y’all. This is negotiation. Yeah, as as a compromise to going through a four part series in depth on these we agreed to we tried to make it a competition, we just couldn’t figure out the scoring and enough in enough time. So it’ll be for another. So couple of big a couple of big highlights. And then one final highlight at the end after our rapid fire round. So the first expanded automatic enrollment in retirement plans, this is important for everybody who might be starting a new job to know that the tune of the automatic enrollment is heating up a little bit, Paul,


yep. So it’ll be by December 31 2024, they’re gonna be required to do this. So when you start with an employer, they’re going to be required to start you at 3%, when you first enroll, increase it by 1% a year automatically, until you reach 10%. Now, that doesn’t mean you’re not going to be able to be out of the plan, it just means like they’re going to automatically increase it. And if you didn’t want that to happen, you got to back it back down. So that’s, that’s the automatic enrollment increase, you’re gonna see more and more automatically enroll you. And this all comes from studies out of some European countries, where they noticed that they have huge donor organ donor signups. And the only difference between the countries that have really low organ donor signups and really high organ organ donor signups is the default box. And so yep, yep. So the they’re trying to make it an opt out. So that people are more likely to be able to save for the future.


Now that one goes into effect, after December 31 2024. So this is how it is with everything, government. There’s big announcements, of course, now there’s the run up. So you have some time to figure out how these are going to impact you. Number two, the Savers match. And this one is, you know, it’s kind of a funny switcheroo. And again, it only applies to incomes between 41,070 1000 Or for joint joint tax returns. And effectively that the way I understand it, Paul is I’m just reminding myself is that this tax credit they used to get is going to now show up inside of your Yes 401k


or something like if you prove you put that much into the 401k then we’ll give you the match. But that’s another one that the implementation is until the end of 2023 26 Oh, sorry. The student loan payments. Yes. Yeah, right. Yep. So that one’s not gonna be till 26 But I’m assuming they’re going to figure out some way to integrate the like, you don’t get your savers credit in last year. CPA includes what you put your 401k Last year, something like


that. So if you’re The plan in the past was to spend your savers credit at the racetrack, you’re not going to be able to do that anymore. And instead of your 401 K, that’s alright, the third big highlight before we go to our Rapid Round. And then our final piece of news at the end about the huge provision for everyone is student loan payments, as a result isn’t as it relates to your four Oh, and 1k. So now, you’re allowed to not save for retirement and instead, pay down your student loans. Yep.


And here, what it looks like it would shape up as is something the effect of you would tell your employer like, Hey, I put 3% of my income into my student loans. So then the employer will give you the match. So that you just pay your student loans normal, but your student loan payments count as your deferral such that you’d qualify for the match. And the reason so much of this has to be done by regulation, y’all is because the government has so much supervision in this, there is very little wiggle room. You know, like if you’ve ever gone to an employer the day after the new year and say, Oh, can I please get some contribution for last year? I forgot. They’re like, No. And not because we don’t like you or don’t want to the law won’t let us. So there’s some other little things we’re gonna get into in the lightning round, that show that there’s like, like, why couldn’t you do that simple little thing before? And it’s because the, the regulations didn’t allow it. So there’s gonna be some things in here. This seemed like very common sense. Know, that it sounds common sense because they banned common sense in these plans up until now, just because of the overburden of the regulation.


Right. Hmm. All right.


And and now I do have one extra dangle for folks. I think there’s two things that are really critical. They should wait until the end on. Okay, I think I think one of them’s gonna be 30 seconds, we’re gonna cover in line, but it’s right near the end. So now, before we jump into this, I get into our lightning round, I want to give big props to this law firm, Williams Mullen, we’re actually working from we did some searching and find who put together the best document on these changes. We’re going to have a link to this posted to our website. But just right before we get off, I want to just specifically acknowledge all of the authors of this. Mark Parrington. Braden DeWitt Nona massengill, Alison, Carl, Carlin,


Claire, Paula out to get some great work on there, Claire. Yeah.


Claire, especially appreciate you. But it’s what is fun about doing this and walking you guys through this little bit of documents that you guys can get through and read all of this stuff, I would highly recommend everybody, especially if you’re a business owner, or an executive that’s got a decent amount of money go into a plan. This documents well worth the read. This firm did a lot of work. It’s just been posted the last 24 hours. And I think it’s the best summary out there, you can read it in a few minutes, we’re gonna get a chance to go a little more in depth on some of these. So now I sent this to Corey. And so all I want to do is talk about the highlighted portions. And he said we’ve been through like, there’s a lot of


like, you know, a bear coming out of hibernation the glare of the of the yellow. That’s why That’s why we’re doing it. This way.


I have no idea how often Cory saves our audience from what I would have done otherwise. So. Alright, so we’re gonna kick off our timer here. 30 seconds on the clock. It’s rolling


on. So improving coverage for part time employees go?


Yep. So one of the things they’re going to do is say after December 31 2024. If you have employees work for you on a part time basis, over 500 hours, three years in a row, you gotta allow them to participate in the 401k period, end of story, pretty simple, but increased regulatory burden to the employer and possible opportunity to the employee could get in sooner.


All right, this next one, basically, the government is going to allow your employer to incentivize you to put money in the 401k by like, letting you win an amazon gift card for a little bit of money to so messes with our head gamifies it a little bit. It’s not any big dollar amounts, but after December 31 2022 They’re allowed to kind of do some fun little games to help you put more in there.


Okay, you get Amazon gift card now. That’s one of those common sense wouldn’t seem like it’s a big deal. It was illegal before this. Now I’m getting this time we’re working right. emergency savings accounts linked to individual retirement plans. Terrible idea. Terrible idea. Congress. Do not tell people your long term savings, we’re gonna allow you to access up to $2,000 Just because he’s had an emergency. That is what it is. It’s a terrible idea. Sorry, 2500 of you can put extra money into a separate little account that’s supposed to be your emergency savings account, but it’s in your phone are one guy? I’m glad you did it give people more access to their money, but terrible idea, Cory.


All right now the Department of Labor is going to have a lost and found for your retirement plan. So database, you can look up any ERISA covered plan to see if you got some money out there. And I think this is a great idea. I have plenty of clients that after two or three, four years of working together, have remembered they had a plan that they even forgot to mention, because it had been so so long. So I think this can be good for a lot of people. All right, next, yep.


It’s like, it’s like the government’s gonna give us couch cushions,


right, all hire ketchup limits.


All right, so you can contribute up to $10,000. Now as catch up contribution, or 50%, more than the regular ketchup amount for individuals 60 through 63. So they’re giving for some reason stopping is 63. You can’t save after that. But you can put extra money in from 60 to 63. Now, starting December 31 24.


Now effective December 31 2023. Any catch up contributions. For folks who are you know that 50 or greater will automatically be Roth, which is pretty darn cool as an idea. Although I don’t necessarily know that that works the best of the best for everyone. So that’s just the blanket policies are can tend to be a problem.


I’m gonna go slightly long on this one. So wait for the buzzer. And now, I’m still gonna say on this one. What is key about that is it’s high income earner so over 145,000, then you’re not going to be able to deduct any more. So what the IRS is figuring out is they want that tax money now, they don’t want to wait around. So they’re gonna let you put it in Roth, but they want to tax money today instead of deferring it. Right, next one. Amendments to increase benefits for previous plan years loud allowed until employer tax return date. So let’s say you had a great year and use the employer said what I want to do is have give my employees a better match for last year, because once all the books were done and closed in March of the following year, I realized that enough money to do that you can now do that as the employer that was not possible before court.


All right, required minimum distributions. As of now, January 2023, are going to be 73 instead of 72. Prior, and that goes up to 75, starting 2033. So what does that mean, financial advisors have a lot more to keep track of and are planning now our models are not as easy. But good news for for everybody else. All right. Next,


I’m gonna hit the next one that’s later on the document. But ties to this one, it’s also going to drop the penalty for required minimum distributions, if you miss them. They currently are 50%, they’re dropping to 20. And then I think it’s like by the end of 2024, they get down to 10%, like a regular IRS penalty.


All right, next one. Got it. There’s mandatory retirement plan distributions to be automatically rolled over meaning like you leave the employer and you’ve got a de minimis amount in there. Now up to $7,000. Again, as of December 31 2023, gets automatically rolled over into an IRA.


Yep. So previously, employers can just


catch those nickels and the couch cushions and


D ID. All right, here’s another one that kind of picks up on another this is a little bit different than that savings account I talked about earlier. And simultaneously worse, we’re gonna allow people to just take a penalty free withdrawal from their 401k for $1,000. For any self assessed emergency, so terrible for the low income earner, that’s a saver, but may save them from credit card debt, etc. Just the blending of emergencies and long term savings is my concern. Corey, now


there’s three more that go along with this. I’m just going to cover him penalty free withdrawals in the case of domestic abuse, terminal illness or federally declared disaster. So that last one was kind of like the COVID Cares Act, they’re building some language in just automatically help that happen. That’s up to 22,010% early distribution for terminal illness. That’s just right now that’s in effect, and then the domestic abuse one is up to 50% of the participants account again, if they self certify, which, you know, it leaves some more ways that people can get money out whether that’s good or bad.


Well, and I gotta tell you the domestic abuse one is one I’m a big fan of because that might be the especially in a married domestic abuse situation that may be shut out of family bank accounts that 401k money might be the only money they get and so that was it. Yeah. I’m personally really thankful they made that decent limit, it’s 10,000. But they didn’t say anything about it being indexed for inflation, but that domestic abuse distribution as low as


inflation is good. So


all right, cool. Next one exempt exemption for certain automatic portability transactions. Now, this permits a retirement plan service provider to give that default Ira portability service for anything between 1005 1000 to allow it to be default rolled to an IRA. So this is an employer no longer wanting to pay the record, keeping all these employees that are in the plan, but not doing anything in the plan. And they’re gonna allow them to just put those people in IRAs and then start sending their statements to their IRAs instead of being in the 401k.


All right. It used to be that Roth IRAs never had RMDs required minimum distributions. employer retirement plans and Ross were subjected to some rules. Now, that’s all gone. So no, RMDs for anything that says Roth ever. That’s great. Love, indeed.


All right. Next one is the IRA. Catch up contribution that’s kind of in the same of 5006, like whatever they set it at each year is now indexed to inflation. That perfect.


All right, one time election for qualified charitable distribution to split interest entity increase in qualified charitable distribution, limitation.


So exciting. Do you want me to do fast translation?


Yeah, cuz I didn’t get a chance to read this one yet. So


you can give $50,000 of your IRA to a church or charity, and they can actually give you an annuity back. And previously, you could never do that with IRA money and they left in the provision, you can still give 100,000 directly. That’s not what they call a split interest gift, where I am leaving the principle to the charity, but I’m taking a little bit of income, they’re gonna allow that to happen with IRAs.


Now, this next one, is pretty intriguing. So 520 nines


up? This is what I want them wait for. We’re gonna make that the second last one.


Oh, that’s 20 nines is one of the things we’re going to talk about. Okay. Yeah.


So you take that next one? Yeah. prohibited transaction.


Yeah. If an individual has multiple IRAs, only the IRA with respect to which a prohibited transaction occurs will be disqualified. So that’s an example of a prohibited transaction,


buy real estate in your IRA. And then you take outside money and put it in to be able to improve the property that would make all of your IRAs taxable, and they’re saying no, no, no, just the one where you did the dumb move with the house.


So that’s really useful for folks that want to do self directed IRAs, and do some of these real estate pieces, it makes it a lot lowers the risk. Yeah, lowers the risk a lot.


And right, next one is if you start a small plan, you want to make sure that your CPA knows that you started the plan in the current year, because there are some tax credits available, depending on how big you are and how much match you do for new employees. But you do get either a 50% 75 or 100% credit, depending on how big your company is in your employee count, you can actually get paid as the employer for some of the match you did for your employees.


Cool. We also are allowing employers running simple plans to put an additional non elective contribution in so lesser of 10% of comp or $5,000, whichever is smaller. And that’s indexed. But it’s a giving another provision for that profit sharing kind of activity that’s available in other plans into a simple,


yep. This next one, I think I can hit these next two really quick because they’re fast. We’re, they’re increasing the limits basically, on simple IRA plans to make them similar to a kind of a solo 401 K plan. But what is also coming through this legislation is a new tool nobody’s talked about called the starter 401k, which doesn’t exist yet. But now there’s gonna be something called the starter 401 k, that is going to exist, and then I’ll just do the next one because I meant to do it together, Cory is simple. And Sep plans will now be able to have a Roth account as of December 31. So I guarantee you none audience have this figured out yet, but give them a couple of months and you’ll be able to make contributions to Sep and simple via your make them to Roth side of simple and separate counts.


That’s really exciting. Really exciting. And like you know, I hadn’t get into that didn’t get to see this ahead of time. As y’all know. That’s sometimes my My situation, but seft being so much easier to set up than 401k is like solo 401 K’s like for a lot of clients who could qualify for a solo K or a SEP, that Roth ability is one of the things that would have a steer them towards the complication of a solo K. But now, a CEP with a Roth might be the way that’s that’s gonna be big news for a lot of 1099, folks,


and hey, can I do the next one? Yeah, by my favorite provision left, there’s two more left. But I can get to two of them quick. And then we’ll get to the special ones at the end quarry over those. This is a big deal for your sole proprietor, you, let’s say you’re going to start a 401k, you can start your 401k. But the problem was starting your 401 K, if let’s say you started right now, you can’t put in a contribution for last year because the plan needed to be set up before the calendar year end last year. That was the rule until a couple weeks ago. Now the law is you have Intel you file your tax return much later in the year to be able to set up your retirement plan for last year. So even if you wanted to set up a 401 K or otherwise, you can set it up for last year and make those contributions. Previously, that was only allowable on certain types of accounts. But now a 401 k can be done retroactive, which was never possible before. So last but not least, if you have a 401k, you are going to have to rewrite your plan with all this stuff. And you’re going to get a big plan amendment fee from your 401k. Provider. It’s going to happen everybody so in advance, sorry about that to the American public. But on the upshot if you’re revisiting your retirement plan, and you’re gonna have to plan for a restatement anyway, and you’re not a client of ours, this might be a really good time to check in Jeff, who introduced the episode is our 401k experts spent most of his career in group benefits. And we’d be more than happy to have you take another look at your plan. If some of these things are going to increase the cost to your plan. Maybe it’s good time to reassess the plan. Cory, let’s give them what we’ve been dangling. Yep.


The Dangle the two big ones. So I’ll go, I’ll go first with the one I’ve been holding on to all right. So for a long time, more and more employers have been adding a Roth option to the 401k allows you to direct your contributions to a Roth with a limit that is a lot with no income limit, like there is for the traditional Ross, outside of those plans. So a lot of people have been able to put money into into Ross, but that annoying employer contribution had to go to pre tax the whole the whole time. So if they didn’t have any


template conversion in there, you couldn’t even switch it to Roth, if you’re


right, which that a lot of plans didn’t have in plan conversion. So a lot of folks, even though it didn’t suit them, and their AMS to be building that tax deferred bucket. They still had no choice. Yeah. Now you’re able to direct employer contributions to Roth. Now. We got away from that. So I don’t I don’t remember actually is the deadline. Is it starting a year from now? Or is that supposed to be right? Way? Where is that? retirement savings? Note that’s on the top of this page mandatory? On the domestic abuse? December 31 23. So this last year, end of this year? Yep.


So and you know, some of these are literally like a lawmaker going, kind of licking their finger, and they’re sticking it up in the window. Like, I think it’s gonna take them about this long to get ready for this new rule. Yeah, I don’t know if you guys remember, when the Affordable Care Act was passed in, that was a rule that every single doctor needed to be totally paperless. And that was supposed to be done. Like, I don’t know, what was that 10 years ago? It was long time ago. And no, I go to my doctor’s office now. And it’s like, we’re still requesting medical records and people are sending them out to copy services. So you know, these doctors didn’t get it converted. My last fun one is you guys know if you’ve gotten into our channel if you haven’t done it lately, search this channel if you’re interested in college savings, because we have done some great content on the problems with five to nine plans. Well, there’s a pretty serious benefit now is that lawmakers have said people are putting money to five to nine plans, but they fully realize that they get extra money trapped in the plan. And they don’t have another beneficiary to give it to they gotta pull it out with taxes and penalties. So you sent your kid to school, there’s an extra $30,000 You’re going to pay taxes and penalties on that. What they said is so long as the plan has been in place for over 15 years. You can roll it to your Roth IRA, not to exceed $35,000, per beneficiary. And that will probably change with some regulations over time, because that one’s not getting implemented for a couple of years. But it is a key thing to know that previously, where we had no exit from excess money inside of a five to nine plan, we actually have a decent exit now that doesn’t have to include the money being spent. So we’re going to have some fun. And then what’s also going to be fun as this gets implemented, is there’s going to be rules and more things are gonna get released, we’re gonna say more things on these episodes. But as an example, some of the big moves we did for clients and shifting to Roth came out of the SAFE Act, that was part of the COVID response by our government. So we can take some of these regulations. When you work with an advisor that understands your aims, what you and your family want out of life. And then you couple that with an advisors expertise, and a willingness to engage and teach you these principles, then over time, that team member is going to make you more efficient as you build your wealth. Just like something like as new piece of legislation comes out. And, you know, people like those of us that sound financial group are digging through for every opportunity that we can to make that new rule that if we encounter it without knowledge might actually be detrimental. But if we encounter those new set of rules and laws and regulations with knowledge, we might actually be able to use them to our more effective advantage for a long term wealth building. Corey, anything else you want to send people off on the secure act 2.0.


Now just make sure if any of these pique your interest, or even if they didn’t take a look at the document and read through because we didn’t go fast, to see if anything jumps out to you. And we haven’t


talked about it a while. But if you click that in our show notes in the comments, it’ll be like the pinned comment, click on it. And what you’re going to see it’s going to take you to a web page for this episode. And in there is where we’ll have links to any of our documentation, links, research things you can download, etc. And, you know, I want to just thank the entire team at Williams and Mullins this week, Cory for helping our clients being able to design and build a good life. And we really look forward to seeing all of you next week and welcome to 2023


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