PODCAST EPISODE 179: Where Are Tactics Overtaking Strategy In Your Financial Plan?

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Paul

Welcome to your business, your wealth, where your host, Paul Adams and Corey Shepherd teach founders and entrepreneurs how to build wealth beyond their business balance sheets.

Welcome to your business, your wealth. My name is Paul Adams. I’m CEO of sound Financial Group, and I’m joined by Corey Shepherd, a man who was so personable and so kind that if your own mother told you, she didn’t like him, you’d begin to doubt your mom. Cory, I’m so glad to be here today.

Cory

Man, I never know what you’re gonna say. That’s why I’m trying to rotate into to introduce you My gosh, I really liked that one and good thing. Your mom. I think she really likes me most of the time, every once in a while I worry about it.

Paul

No, she likes you more than she likes me. She likes me a lot. Well, I’m so glad that all of you could join us today. And before we get to this weekend planning, fair warning, this is going to be a packed episode. Not too long, but full. And what we’re going to be talking about today is where our tactics overtaking strategy in your financial plan, it’s so easy to pick up one tactic, the next tactic, the next tactic, and you kind of accumulate them and that’s where we talk about financial junk drawer. So where can we start to share with all of you some of the things that feel like strategy people on the radio or a wall street journal article might very well tell you, it’s a strategy, but it may just be a tactic. So with that, let’s talk a little bit about this weekend planning. Now I just kind of poked an elbow a little bit The financial media. I’m going to do the same here in a moment, but not so much citing a specific article, but going at a client’s experience. So one of the things I love more than anything else and we get a constant report, we just got a text message from one of our clients, praising one of our advisors, because of how different this year is starting for them, because they are taking control and agency over their own financial future. And that it’s so amazing to hear those so by the way, any clients are listening, please text us anytime, day or night with that kind of report. We will love, love to hear it. We would love to share it with all of you. But there’s actual federal statute restricting the capacity for a registered investment advisor to be able to share testimonials. That’s why you don’t hear us interviewing clients. That’s why you don’t see us posting stuff on social media like these text messages and thank yous and emails that we get because We can’t. It’s just a federal restriction against it now. We love it when somebody takes that full agency starts learning goes after it with a passion. And we had a client recently who was introduced to us and had been taking it more seriously than she ever had before. And she says, I’ve started watching Bloomberg. And that’s a financial media company if you’re not familiar, and, and yeah, so watching Bloomberg is not the politician now that Mike Bloomberg is running for office. It’s actually a weird thing that I have to clarify.

Cory

People know,

Paul

Bloomberg, the news network websites, all that the media company of Bloomberg. And she said, so I’ve got a whole bunch of new questions. And you could go through every single one of them. And Cory and I could have probably met for two minutes or text each other back and forth a little bit and have predicted every question she would ask. And it just speaks to the fact that we, we, these pundants are not bad. In fact, you could take some of what they’re teaching, bring it in as a way to expand your thinking. But then what you need to do is sit down with your advisor and your coach. And that through what’s being said, because keep in mind, they’re broadcasting out to millions of people. It’s not specific advice to you. And it could lead you astray now. Cory has got a couple of great examples like things the media had been saying right before some of the biggest pull backs we’ve seen in most of yalls investing careers.

Cory

Well, and they, you know, this isn’t universal, but in general, it can be useful to listen to these stations and these these pundits because then you know, the thing that you don’t really have to worry that much about getting into at the moment, meaning one of them was in the in the 2000s by tech stocks. So by the time you could turn on Bloomberg or any financial station and hear every single person talking about buying sec tech stocks, then most of the appreciation had already happened. It’s happening with cryptocurrency right now, where everybody’s talking about crypto, everyone’s got a crypto fund. And that’s not to say that crypto won’t do well in the future. But are we going to see that same giant growth that we saw in a couple of years in, in Bitcoin?

Paul

Well, and i and i would agree that it doesn’t mean that all the appreciations happen because the first thing I hear people perhaps think to themselves, or what may be occurring in a view is like, Oh, that’s right. When everybody on every channel was saying tech stocks, this is how pattern seeking we are as human beings. It’s

Cory

amazing, right?

Paul

But you look and you go, oh, everybody was saying buy tech stocks. All the most all the appreciation has already happened. And the tech bubble crashed. So What I need to do is watch all of the financial channels and see what all recommending I do and then I’ll

Cory

tell them no, no, that’s not everything either. That’s

Paul

but isn’t that a great example? Yeah, quickly we go to pattern recognition. How about in 2008 let’s just take the first half of 2008 it was buy a house, get it quickly. prices are going up. You know, people are becoming enormously wealthy in real estate.

Cory

buy as many as you can get as many leveraged properties as possible, because you’re just gonna see it

Paul

rise. Exactly right. Like like as like it will go up like a balloon full of helium in a normal atmosphere like that kind of certainties where it’s often spoken about. Now, I don’t have any qualms with any of that, take it in, reflect on it, learn from it, because oftentimes, some of the facts they say, are accurate and it will increase your overall Financial Intelligence. The trouble is, the conclusions they sometimes draw So with that, we’ll back off of Bloomberg all that and just know that we love it when clients increase their knowledge, just remember, you always want to bring it back to your coach and say, Hey, would this thing or this thing or this thing actually work for me in my circumstances. Which brings us to the topic of today, which is not letting tactics overtake strategies in your financial plan. You see, if you guys have listened to some of our past episodes, where we’ve had a vive Shahar on the show, and he talks about in business, and this is a guy who consults with fortune 100 companies in incredibly rare air, that he breathes as it relates to knowledge and transacting and some of the highest levels and some of the biggest corporations in the world. And one thing he notices over and over again talks about in his book building new futures, is that people need to solve for the future state of where they’re going. So that’s going to kind of be the theme of discerning tactics from strategies in our conversation today. And you can know that whenever people are marketing a product to it’s almost like they just want to take a bandaid and put it on whatever is ailing you at the time. Going back to our financial media, if you want to have some fun, go in, watch what’s happening in the episode. And then look who’s advertising. You can do the same thing and financial magazines. And you’d be

Cory

like, Huh,

Paul

isn’t that odd that they just uncovered a wound for me of x. And now there’s five pages of full page glossy ads that are all speaking to that. That wound of mind that they just messed with.

Cory

And oh, Paul, oh my gosh, I’m so glad you said that because I was just flying this week, bought a couple of business magazines in the airport to check out what was because I hadn’t seen what was going on in a while. And there’s a new thing out there, where they’re as packed with ads or more packed with ads. than they ever have been before, but those ads look like articles. And you’d have to watch on the bottom they have to disclose this on the bottom. They say advertorial on

that was called

yeah advertorial or sponsored by x. And, and so then, you know, and they all look slightly different than the articles. It’s like they have a lens that they put out. So watch out for that and know what you’re reading and, and just, that’s a it’s an amazing development. I was like, Oh, you sneaky sneaky. Sneaky.

Paul

Yeah, cuz they used to make advertorials all look the same as one another through the magazine. It was easy to see it’s getting harder and harder to see. So with that here, why don’t you take us down that first tactic.

Cory

So here’s the first one I think I can get get us through pretty pretty quick because it’s a famous one, the 401k either either maxing out the 401k or using a young person as an example to say the first thing you should do in your first job is make sure you’re signing up for that 401k and if you Can’t max it at least max out the employers match. That’s the tactic and a tactic you can identify as something, you know, if it solves a very specific pain point above all else, it might be a tactic. Can we do that? You if you’re solve a pain point, yeah might be a tactic. Is anyone

Paul

here? Good at one soldier sign it, I’m with you. And it’s notice, and it didn’t occur to me when we were kind of sketching this episode out. But think about how they don’t even talk about where the money’s gonna be invested. Correct.

Cory

Like, just put it in there,

Paul

get it in there. Like that may not work. We have

Cory

met people with hundreds of thousands of dollars in their 401k where it’s been uninvested for like half a decade to a decade. Now and if you if you start building a strategy, talking about what kind of allocation you should have, what kind of risk tolerance you could have, you start talking about things like well can afford this money to go up and down because I don’t need to touch it. Now if a young person is talking about that, and they have, you know, $20 in their checking and savings account combined, they actually don’t have a high risk tolerance for that 401k because they might hit an emergency in life. And it’s not a might, something will happen unexpected in their life, and they’re going to need money somewhere. So this is gonna shatter some people’s worlds, but it may not be appropriate for a young person to take that advice and immediately start putting money into their 401k in their first job, because they’re gonna get the money anyway. And so, you know, know the difference between traditional and Roth IRA, and 401k. Select those investments with an eye towards the right risk and the cost inside of them and make sure that it’s rebalancing in some way. Those are the kinds of things that go into a 401k strategy, Cory in case somebody’s listening, could you give like the 32nd version of that The difference between traditional and Roth, and then I’ve got one more question for the audience for you. Sure. So traditional is pre tax rock is post tax as it relates to your paycheck. So traditional gets taken out before the IRS gets told that you made that money. So it just sits inside of the 401k pre tax. So you do get a tax deduction, your income looks lower a Roth, you get paid, the income gets counted on your tax return, and then it goes into the 401k or the IRA. Now, the advantage on the back end is when you take the money out of a Roth, no tax at all, when you take the money out of the 401k. It’s taxed at your highest income bracket at that time. Now, one quick misconception is that people think oh, when I put money into a traditional 401k I’ll actually have more money in my pocket this year because the tax savings. No you won’t because the tax sale savings is just deferred in the 401k. The your money and the IRS is money live next to each other. So you might pay less in taxes that year, but you don’t actually have more money in your pocket that year money, just go into the 401k.

Paul

Okay, yes. And add that all up. And that Roth bill gives you that total tax free income on the back end. And here’s the thing, let’s go back to what the tactic is. First thing you should do is contribute to this. Well, are any of you listening in a lower tax rate right now than you were in your 20s? And do you think there’s any chance you’re going to be back to that tax rate? I hope for all of you that answer’s no. That you did not ever get that low bracket. Can you share with everybody what it means to rebalance?

Cory

So rebalancing is making sure that The allocation that you picked stays in the same proportions over time. So using, I’m just going to oversimplify for a second, if you’ve got 5050 stocks and bonds, in general stocks grow faster than bonds. And so a year from now, the stocks might have grown so much faster that you’re actually 70% stock 30% bonds just because they’ve grown so much more. Now, all of a sudden, you’ve got a lot more stock than you intended to, you’re actually a lot riskier than you thought that you would be. And so you sell enough stock and buy enough bonds to bring us back down to 5050. But now, but your accounts still at a higher level. So it’s harvesting some of those gains and putting it back into some of the other things that are lower to get us back to the equilibrium that we want to be in. And about half

Paul

of our clients where they have a 401k with some big corporation have an option to automatically set it to do that. If you don’t have that option, you got to put it in your calendar. Make sure like maybe a Saturday morning sometime that you know, you can log into your 401k platform take the time instead of to rebalance. And for most folks in a 401k one last thing real quick,

Cory

a target date fund, if they’re offered is probably the best bet in a lot of 401k. Because it’s the lowest cost. It’s actually automatically rebalancing for you because it’s keeping you on a constant track, getting the risk a little bit high, lower as you get closer to retirement. So, think about that in your research as well. target date funds are, are usually very good and 401k. Okay, Paul, our next one,

Paul

what’s our next rack? So the next tactic people hear a lot is the path by which you pay off your home at some point, which is almost always some version of get a 15 year mortgage, you’ll pay less in interest and if you get a chance, make extra payments also. Now that’s the tactic and by itself, does it sound good? Yes. Think about how the banker proposes it to you. They say, look, you are going to pay X amount of interest over the next 30 years if you keep your current mortgage, if you refinance to a 15. Now usually they give you a marginally lower interest rate, you refinance to a 15 year, we’re going to give you this lower interest rate, and look how much less interest you’re going to pay the bank. Now, right there, it sounds like a really good tactic. But I want you to put your skeptics hat on a little bit, which is would you ever go to your employer or as a business owner, would you ever go to one of your biggest customers and say, you know, if you negotiated with me this way, or did these things differently? I would get it you would only have to pay me half as much. Of course you would never do that. So the question becomes, why does the bank and it’s because if you understand how banks are Work, one of the things they make the most money on is the flow, not necessarily the interest rate. And so when they go on the hook for a 30 year note, now they may sell that note or do other things. Whatever institution is holding it, they’re holding it for 30 years. Like they are saying I’m perfectly fine only getting 4% interest for the next 30 years on this money secured by your home. So of course, they want you to pay it off earlier, because they make the same amount of money and the more flow you give them back in terms of repayment of principal the more quickly they can loan that back out to other people and be able to get more turns on their money. Meanwhile, what’s the rate of return on the extra money we put in our homes equity

00

return on your home equity you want proof. take somebody that has a home that they have paid Down aggressively, and they only owe, say $400,000 on a million dollar home. And somebody else did not pay down the home aggressively they owe $700,000. If the two exact same homes go up 10% value next year, which one’s worth more? Well, they’re worth exactly the same. Which just means all that equity didn’t produce any return at all now may have avoided an interest charge. And in other episodes, we’re going to go deeper into that arbitrage between interest. But the biggest thing I want you to take away is there is a reason the bank is telling you, you can pay us less money. This strategy might look like maybe I should keep my money. If I’m keeping my money over a 20 year horizon of time, like not, we’re not talking about ripping equity out of your home here. We’re talking about not paying down the mortgage as quickly. And so if you’re looking to go, Well, I have a 20 year investment time horizon or at least 15 because that’s the difference between the 30 year and 15 year mortgage, how can I invest? Could I build an academically allocated globally diversified portfolio that I add to every single month instead of making the extra payments to my mortgage? You can look at the difference with that simple math and realize, Oh gosh, I mean if the market does, okay, doesn’t even need to shoot the lights out, just needs to do okay over 15 years. And I could go ahead and pay off my home before the 15 year time horizon. Because those variables in our life change constantly know Cory spoke to it earlier, the only thing that you can be assured of in the future is the unexpected. And bottom line is, you have a couple extra hundred thousand dollars in home equity 10 years from now, because we’re very aggressively paying down your home. And then the whatever Black Swan event occurs in your life that you did not anticipate that same black swan event in all life. likelihood will put you in the position that you can’t go back to the bank and effectively borrow the money.

Cory

Right? Because they won’t give you a home equity loan if you don’t have a job anymore.

Paul

Yeah. Or, or as a business owner, just think about like you’ve been. Things have been going really, really well for 10 years, and then something blindsides you when that thing blindsides you, what is the bank policy? Oh, gee, you know, of course, we know your employer company, but we need to see the company financials to all that all of us as business owners have been through that. And how much more difficult it is to borrow money just because we’re a business owner.

Cory

Oh, my gosh, I just thought of a great mental map. Like here’s how I would ask the question. Most people if they’re buying a home, it’s the biggest financial transaction that they’ve completed, like if someone’s in their 30s or 40s, buying a home many times that home purchase price is bigger than the investment accounts that they’ve accrued at that time. So would would anybody in their 30s or 40s take all of their investment capital and lock it up in a fixed strategy for the next 30 years. No One No One would say that was a good idea. But getting a 30 year mortgage and paying it down aggressively fast or a 15 year is saying in this one point in time I’m assuming all the knowledge about the next 15 years and taking one path with no flexibility to reverse that that course that’s just something that no one would ever do and anything else well sir All right. So we have gone from 401 K’s to mortgages to the most near and dear the sacred cows of our of our financial system. We’re gonna take a quick break and hear a message from sound Financial Group and you’ll find out where we go next. So stay with us.

Paul

Paul Adams here at sound Financial Group. Are you curious what you can accomplish with our help? You’re here enjoying the show. Our philosophy is helping you increase your effectiveness with money. And now we have a way to help you take another step on your financial journey. We have designed a financial inquiry call for you and the thousands of other listeners of your business your wealth. This is a complimentary 15 minute conversation, where one of our team members will ask you some key questions. understand your concerns, and if appropriate schedule a time for further conversation with an advisor. If you look at the episode description, you’ll see a link to schedule a call at a time that’s least invasive for you. And even if now’s not the right time for us to work together, we’ll point you toward resources to help you in your financial journey. We always look forward to connecting with our listeners, and we look forward to talking with you soon. Welcome back to your business, your wealth. I love this topic. I love the idea of tactics and strategies. It’s the difference between what’s the pill I could take that would put me in good shape versus being an ascetic. Have disciplined strategies of working out, eating, avoiding temptation, etc to get your physical body in shape. So let’s stop trying to take financial pills and instead dig into financial strategies. Cory what is our last example of tactics versus strategies?

Cory

Alright, this tactic is one presented usually by the life insurance industry or life insurance agent, which is to buy whole life insurance and instead of term and put your money into that as a supplemental income retirement vehicle, meaning you’ve built up some money in an account and it’s one just one of the places that you just start dripping money out of it age 65 or 70 whenever you retire. Now, that tactic as far as usefulness for the tool that you have, is somewhat like taking your car, filling it up with all your possessions is using it as like a wheelbarrow to push down the road.

Am I am I right?

Paul

You just nailed it. Yeah, it’s, it’s like it could do so much more a car, and you would be massively under utilizing it.

Cory

So here’s some examples of some some strategies instead of it just being sitting right next to your 401k is here’s one ROI retirement vehicles, using it as a cash reserve and setting set of keeping cash on hand especially right now with how low interest rates are and how little cash savings are paying. But also, even when, you know cash rates were up high in the teens in the 80s and 90s. Whole Life is an attractive alternative because it rises with some of those those interest rates, well, you can use it.

Paul

And just on that one, I’ve got to say that you think about the simple math, and anybody listening could just do this with a simple future value calculator. Reach out to us become a client of ours. If you don’t have somebody teaching you how to do this math. This is math. You should Know how to do if you’re one of our clients, and you haven’t learned to do it yet, let’s take some time and make sure it happens. But just run a scenario of if your household keeps a couple hundred thousand dollars in cash all the time, run that at half a percent interest for the next 20 years. And then next to that run, what the 200,000 would do if it could just achieve 3% tax free over the next 20 years. It’s an enormous difference in wealth between those two scenarios. And it’s one of those things that as a strategy is not included in most people’s plans when they organize when somebody when somebody else proposes them that they should own a life insurance policy for retirement income strategy tactic. Right. You can use it as a bond substitute in your investment portfolio. This is one that could be a whole podcast by itself and we have done some work on it in the past. Guys like dick Weber have done some research and talk to you About how whole life has a lower standard deviation lower risk associated with it, then many bonds do even so you actually get some additional boosts having that as part of your portfolio, usually not 100% substitute, we could call it a bond additive just for the sake of our, our conversation right now, Paul, can you talk about using it as a Private Reserve Bank, inside of a business, man, if if people just think about how it is some of the wealthiest families in the world have built that wealth and maintained it, they’ve done it by keeping enough capital on their balance sheet that when the banks won’t bank them, they can bank themselves, bank, their family members, or bank their businesses. And a simple thing if you have a whole life insurance policy sitting on your balance sheet, how much easier is it to go lend money into your business, it has its own accounting feature for paying back the loan. So you don’t have a bunch of other mess and keeping track of things and That business needs the cash. But what happens for most people on their personal balance sheet, cash performs so poorly. We don’t keep enough of it on our balance sheet to really be there for our businesses when we need it. So just think of it like you can be the bank, you could be the bank for your business, you could be the bank to make a loan to somebody else at a with a nice piece of collateral and a high interest rate. Or, like in my case, one of the things we’re doing for that banking is we built up bank accounts for our kids so they get to see them. They’re very proud they take their they get to make deposits and withdrawals from their ATM thanks to Boeing employee credit union that’s located BCU located locally up here whose CEO has been on the podcast. I just for the first time showed the kids their whole life policy with thousands of dollars in it already showing them they’re like, well, what What’s that for? I said, Well, we’ll see. But we can take money out of this for opportunities and Things that you want to be able to do, as you learn to open a business, build your career, and my kids are 789. But they’re now already starting to learn that there’s, there’s like a little bank there that’s growing for them. I haven’t shown them my whole life insurance policy yet. They just couldn’t they they wouldn’t easily get used to the numbers at this age, but we’re probably not too far down the road from it

Cory

isn’t we’ll see, one of the greatest phrases you can apply to some financial buckets of money. Yeah, it’s actually so freeing because none of us can predict the future. So being able to have that flexibility to say we’ll see and still have the confidence that whatever the use is, will be a great use. Oh my gosh, that’s amazing,

Paul

or that we can use it going back to our first example of 401k we might not be able to use it for a lot of things.

Cory

So there’s there’s also some some flavors around this cash management in your business. So we call this Stillwater strategies, thinking about it in terms of the cash that it’s pretty much Just always lying around there and you never really get below and how that could just easily be diverted over into something like a whole life policy to increase that, that management that’s a whole other conversation we’re happy to have with folks can use it as a volatility buffer. When making withdrawals and your distribution phase again, we call whole life that checkmark asset because we know like any qualified plan or any, you know, tax benefit account that the IRS allows us to have like an IRA or a 401k, there’s a period of some less than accessibility as we’re putting the money in. So the whole life does go down a little bit in the early years as far as what you can get at, just like any of those accounts, but it comes around much quicker, and then only goes up into the, to the to the growth side. And so if your stock market accounts are fluctuating, if they’re down, you could pull money from the whole life until the market recovers and rebalance back into your other accounts. That’s another type of rebalancing you You can also use it for retirement income, but in a way very different. a permission slip, to let you take more money out of other accounts because you know that that life insurance benefit is coming in on the back end to replenish those accounts for your surviving spouse.

Paul

Yep, that could be a reverse mortgage, charitable remainder trust, like there’s a lot of tools used, allowing the death benefit of the life insurance policy and it’s guaranteed nature to let you spend other money differently than you would have otherwise. Basically, what we want you to do is you’re going to use something like a whole life insurance policy, 401k, mortgage, any of these tools, we want you to use it, like a farmer would use a pig. We want you to hear everything but the squeal of that pig. So we want to get a piece of every financial tool you can not just the tactic that is marketed to you originally. So like what can you do with all this today? You can take a pause by listing out The tactics that you’re considering. Maybe notice the tactics you may have already implemented, you may have done some of the things on this list. And as we start talking about the broader strategic implementations, it’s got your juices flowing a little bit. now is the perfect time to be able to reach out to us you can find contact us on the website, I encourage everybody, because I’m starting to post more and more to follow me at ask Paul Adams. You can find that on Twitter, Instagram, I’m on Facebook, LinkedIn, and you and you will see you can dm us directly and be able to be you’re in a position that you can meet with somebody who may be like, we don’t know if we’re going to be a fit for you, we’d have to do that alignment check. But that you could be connected to somebody who can actually help you discern the difference between what’s a tactic only, and we might want the exact same product but the same product doesn’t perform the same if it’s not using the overarching strategy. If we’re not getting all the use out of it. And if you’re not making sure that whatever that tool is that that tool puts you in a position to get closer to the life that you want to create for you and your family. And that’s, I think, the biggest piece of this for, for us here at sound Financial Group, and at your business, your wealth. It’s that too often, every single one of these tactics we could be in May or like, think about this for about let’s just talk about a life tactic

wake up at 430 in the morning.

Why? What’s going to happen if I wake up at 430 instead of 630? Different my life, that’s the strategy. waking up early is the tactic. Why would I want to eat more green vegetables? Well, there’s gonna be maybe it’s a good idea as a tactic to do that, but you’re gonna get more out of it. If you have an overall strategy in life. Like I want to be in a position that when I’m 65, I can still kayak with my spouse, which is probably going to require more than that one

Cory

tactic.

Paul

But it’s going to have to be instead of a strategy that is for the sake of producing the future state you want in your life. And that’s the thing that can never happen with the robo advisor. That’s think it can never happen with a stock recommendation on the news. So the thing that can never happen with that 30 seconds soundbite from radio show, or this podcast, we’re trying to offer you all the most information that we can. But the bottom line is, if what you’re doing financially is not lined up with your overall financial aims. The likelihood of it producing the life that you want will be by accident. And we want you to do it, like we always say, with design. So what you want to do is get in communication with us have an introductory phone call with Cory, I promise you it will be an investment into your life. That guy does not leave any value on the table. He just gives it all to the people he’s spending time with. Take the Go to the scheduling link, you’ll find it in the show notes. You’ll find it in YouTube, you can message us directly if you’d like. And what that will do is give you an opportunity to maybe begin being more strategic and leaving some of the tactical financial life behind. Now, as always, do review us on whatever podcast platform you’re listening to us on. That makes a huge difference allows other people to hear the same message that you heard today. And we now have clients people whose lives have been changed drastically, because it popped up in their feed because of listeners like you reviewing this show, review it, make it honest, we’d love it to be five star but it’s your call, send us a screenshot of it. And then we’ll send you a copy of either my book sound financial advice, Coreys book, Cape not required or are very soon to be released. Your Business your wealth, the new book for business owners in building their personal balance sheets, and we hope This episode has been a contribution to you being able to design build a good life

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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